[Bass&Trouble]

Originally Posted by gunbir

LBM, I was discussing this as some sweeping comments were made about IB and I feel its not entirely correct to rule out IB for SQ applications. I have already cited some reasons why I think so.

And, this wasnt about ST's install really. Its entirely his decision whether he wants to do sealed, ported, IB or whatever... I think ST knows this and I'm sure he is taking your suggestion into consideration.

Infinite baffle cannot be ruled out for SQ application, that is correct. I myself know of several IB subwoofer installations that have clinched good positions at SQ competitions. However, the number of sealed/ ported enclosure configurations far outnumber the IB ones. To get stupendous SQ from a Infinite baffle sub is not easy, it is very difficult, and a lot of credit has to go to the driver involved.

There are a lot of home audio infinite/ open baffle subs, but most have to be equalized for assist in the low end, or they have to use extraordinarily large drivers to produce the same bass in quantity and quality as a small sealed box sub would. The advantage, usually quoted, is that the bass has a sense of open-ness, and although this may be arguably better, it comes at a higher price.

In the car, there is a lot of assist in the lower bass, and this usually evens out the response of good quality IB subs designed for car use. But this is accompanied by a great deal of work in sealing out the front and rear waves of the driver. This could be simpler in some cars, and impossible in others.

A good quality driver for IB use will usually be over-engineered, i.e. the money spent on materials will be the equivalent of that spent on a sealed sub that has upto 50% more power handling, for similar sound quality.

[navin]

Geez you guys are confusing everyone. I got 3 PMS today wondiering who is correct unfortunately technically all of you are!

IB installs require as much care as building a sealed box - maybe just a bit more. A good IB install means good sealing so that the front wave of the woofer does not canel the rear wave. I did try a IB install in a COntessa many years back but was not very successful (there was bass but not commensurate with the 3 10" woofers I was using) due the poor quality of the Contessa's chassis and design. I'm sure if I had tried harder it could have been done but eventually the excitment of building a TL in my car took over.

Low frequencies have long waveelngths and so can penetrate most soft maertials. Anyone who wants to test it out can do so by lacing his/her home speaker behind a curtain or even a sofa.

So
a) Good IB installs can be done but only with woofers specifically designed for this sort of install.
b) Makig a good sealed box is a bit easier than a IB (needs a good contientious installer).
c) IB's save space. Sealed boxes are easier/cheaper. Pick your poison.

[theEnd]

Sorry to detract from all the infinitely baffling posts, but I had a query about the HU problems of the Civic.

Gunbir, all the pics of Accord installs you showed us feature the second HU to deal with the issue of not having line-outs on the OE HU. Is there any reason you did this rather than go for amps with high level inputs or high level to low level converters?

What I'm concerned about is a possible deterioration in sound quality when the signal goes through all that length of speaker wire (especially if the speaker wire is not upraged to wider gauge wire) or a similar deterioration when going through those converters.

So, with regards to maintaining sound quality, how would you rank the 3 possible configs for adding amps to a Civic?

A - 2nd HU used with Aux line
B - Amps with high level inputs
C - High level to Low level convertors

[gunbir]

Originally Posted by theEnd

So, with regards to maintaining sound quality, how would you rank the 3 possible configs for adding amps to a Civic?

A - 2nd HU used with Aux line
B - Amps with high level inputs
C - High level to Low level convertors

In the same order that you did...

A - 2nd HU used with Aux line
B - Amps with high level inputs
C - High level to Low level convertors

[ST7677]

Finally waiting for KB200000's install...
Need to finalize on lot of things after hearing his setup

As for IB is concerned, can't make up my mind without listening to one... :(
Is there any T-Bhpian in Bangalore with an IB sub setup...?

[navin]

Originally Posted by ST7677

Preferences...
Budget - Value for money - I am an average mortal, trying to strike a balance between dreams and reality

Thump Thump - Just enough to turn other average mortals - don't intend to participate in any one up competitions

Size - Civic boot is already small (438 ltrs), I would want a compact solution, which can preferably be tucked on one side

thread reopened.
addressing your original question.

If all you want to do is add a sub and amp get a Pio D510 (it has speaker level inputs I think) and a 15" sub (I think the JBL GT4-15 is a good budget choice but check out others as well) and go IB. Just make sure your installer is a perfectionist. It will save space and give you thump.

[low_bass_makker]

I agree on the amp part for the sub D510 is a good amp when it comes to driving of the subs....one thing for sure VFM...

about the sub part there can be may options avalable to you like the navin ji pointed out the jbl 15 inch.....or u can use two 12 inchs also.....

like illusion audio .....here is a install of mugen_power......with two illusion in a innova....according to him the setup rock......he will be posting the complete report soon on his thread....one thing more he is drving the subs through the D510.....

[ST7677]

Thank you Navin for reopening the thread.

Actually, based on inputs received, priorities have changed slightly and hence the initial constraints are more relaxed. Also heard some good setups and after that now I am looking for a medium range system rather than a low budget one.

Other problem is that Pioneer D510 does not have speaker level input, so if I add a good high to low converter @4k, it does not remain a VFM option anymore. Gunbir suggested that with another 5k I can get an Audison amp with some wiring kit free...

So the simple options become more complex...


Also B&T's friend is looking for an Alpine adapter which might allow Line outs of my existing HU...

[Mugen_Power]

Originally Posted by ST7677

Gunbir suggested that with another 5k I can get an Audison amp with some wiring kit free...

Hey ST7677,

Which Audison Amp Gunbir Suggested ??
Pioneer D510 Rocks At Its Prize.

Cheers,
Mugen_Power.

[rsjaurr]

Hey Mugen

Even sony 504 rocks at its price.Sure pio D510 would be rocking but then dont u think Kb's 0.1 million will be a "ROCKER OF ALL ROCKS"

Pio HU r good but their amp+spk r no match for high end systems.

[Mugen_Power]

Originally Posted by rsjaurr

Hey Mugen

Even sony 504 rocks at its price.Sure pio D510 would be rocking but then dont u think Kb's 0.1 million will be a "ROCKER OF ALL ROCKS"

Pio HU r good but their amp+spk r no match for high end systems.

It Will be a ROCKER,
But It Doesnt Mean All Others Are No Match.


Cheers,
Mugen_Power.

[low_bass_makker]

Originally Posted by rsjaurr

Pio HU r good but their amp+spk r no match for high end systems.

rsj the pioneer amp is for 10k and the tru is for 100k ten times more....
the pioneer is a sub amp and the tru is a full range amp...
the pioneer can do like 500 x 1 2 ohms and tru can do 250 x 4 2ohms means total of 1000 watts....it means double the power if we compare the manufacture rating....

then it means that the pioneer is a pure VFM.....and it can satisfiy any user....

[sandeep108]

Originally Posted by ST7677

Thank you Navin for reopening the thread.

Actually, based on inputs received, priorities have changed slightly and hence the initial constraints are more relaxed. Also heard some good setups and after that now I am looking for a medium range system rather than a low budget one.

Other problem is that Pioneer D510 does not have speaker level input, so if I add a good high to low converter @4k, it does not remain a VFM option anymore. Gunbir suggested that with another 5k I can get an Audison amp with some wiring kit free...

So the simple options become more complex...

Also B&T's friend is looking for an Alpine adapter which might allow Line outs of my existing HU...

ST, I still feel that either you go the whole hog or accept what is OEM. There is really no point in putting in a sub when the tonal quality of other OEM speakers is below par. As an audiophile, I would want the most natural sound, rather than just booming thumps.

First and cheapest option would be to replace the rears with some good 6x9s. This should have been done when you changed the seats to leather. After all the OEM HU is a 40x4 alpine unit which is not too bad, speakers are the weakest point. Next you can think about changing the HU, amp and fronts with sub, since any case you will have to remove front dash. By this time, the front double din dash panels also will be available and hopefully your budget also increase.

[navin]

Originally Posted by ST7677

Actually, based on inputs received, priorities have changed slightly and hence the initial constraints are more relaxed. Also heard some good setups and after that now I am looking for a medium range system rather than a low budget one...is looking for an Alpine adapter which might allow Line outs of my existing HU...

I'd suggest

a) see a couple of Honda Civic installs the dash requires special adapters for other HUs. I suspect you might prefer to live with your OEM HU.

b) be very specific as to what you want. this will help us to help you and also prevent this thread from going OT again.

c) If you intend to build a system slowly try to ensure that you are not upgrading parts too often. resale on electronics is not great.

[ST7677]

Guys, please go slow on your opinions, I don;t want the thread to be closed again... Please send me PM's if you must.

Yesterday I was at KB's install and it was a good experience being there. Not only did I see an actual install taking place, but I also heard different kinds of setups of many Tbhpians available there.

When I started this thread, I had little idea about what a good ICE really meant (or sounded like). By now I have heard plenty of installs and I know what I am looking for...

1. I do not want to change my HU at all. But since my HU does not have line out I would need to use one of the following:
a) an Alpine adapter behind the existing HU to give lineouts (if it exists)
b) An external Speaker to line converter


2. I have heard lots of amps (JBL, Pioneer, Sony, Audiobahn, Tru, Audison,
Alpine, Hifonics, Nakamichi, etc) and I have decided to go for Audison
amps. I am convinced - no more debate here.
I am looking at LRx series.
Not sure if I need a 4 ch only or a 4 ch + a monobloc!
From what I heard yesterday, I think I would need a monobloc for a
powerfull clean tight bass.
(note: I have evaluated and I do not want to go for a 5 ch - due to lack
of power)

A friend of mine has offered to get me those at an attractive price from
abroad (with warrenty & bill), I will confirm the order in a day or two,
either with him or Gunbir.

3. I am looking for a good SQ system which I can keep for years. I intend
to do the entire system in one go, so that I can move my focus off it.
Otherwise there is no end to upgradations and as Navin said, resales are
not very cost effective.

4. Front Components will be 2way 6.5" - will decide after I decide the amp
5. Subwoofers - will decide after I decide the amp
6. Subwoofer installation - realized that in case of Civic there is a safety bar behind the rear seat, so it will be much more difficult to create a seal for IB install, so the option left is of sealed/ported custom box install.

Thanks