[amalji]

Originally Posted by srinivasu1976

Following is the help I need from you experts
1) How to we fit ovals in Etios, should it be behind the rear seat or should it be in the back luggage compartment ?

On the tray on the rear seat. It can be done using 2 methods.

• Add a spacer to the tray and fit the speakers on top of the spacer.
• Add a full chipwood tray and fit the speakers on top of it. ( Recommended )

I would highly recommend that you get this done @ Toyota for the sake of warranty.

Originally Posted by srinivasu1976

2) The vehicle I booked would come with front and rear round speakers, should I add additional amplifier to get the ovals fixed ?

No, don't add any amplifier, a decent speaker would give good sound.

Originally Posted by srinivasu1976

3) I understand that Etios comes with Panasonic ICH, is there a generic amplifier system that can support universally all head units ?

The older Etios model used to have Panasonic ICH. I guess the new models come with Pioneer. Don't waste your money on an amplifier. Instead, buy a good oval speaker like the Polk Audio one.

Originally Posted by srinivasu1976

4) Read in team-bhp forums that attaching additional speakers will void warranty, is this true ? The dealer from whom I am buying this had denied tweaking the internals. Any suggestions ?

In Kochi, the Nippon Toyota dealer does fit the oval speakers without voiding the warranty. Try pushing them to get it done.

Originally Posted by srinivasu1976

Would be helpful if you can share some pics to understand better.
Thanks in advance.

@ office now. Maybe, I'll do it tomorrow.

[nitinbose]

Wow... that's a lot of suggestions!

I'd say the owner of the Etios should first think of what type of music he/she listens to and how it should be listened to.

Should it be soft to moderate volume or some punch or loud music?

Unless the person listens to loud music, there's no point in going for an amplifier. You might be better off with a good head-unit and some decent speakers.

If you're going for an amp, its got to be a good HU, speakers, subwoofer preferred along with good damping as well as I feel the Etios doors/boot aren't strong/thick enough. They may vibrate as you turn up the volume.

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by amalji

... No, don't add any amplifier, a decent speaker would give good sound. ...

Originally Posted by nitinbose

... Unless the person listens to loud music, there's no point in going for an amplifier. ...

Please do listen to a decent installation that has an amp, and compare with a comparable installation without an amp, before coming to such conclusions. Even the internal HU amp can go quite loud, but it distorts a lot at loud volumes. Listening to music loud is not the objective of fitting an external amp.

An external amp with >40Wrms per channel rating, makes a significant difference to the music as compared to the usual 14-18Wrms internal amp in HUs - even with stock speakers. The difference is in the dynamic range of reproduced music - deeper lows, better mids (well separated instruments and voice) and airy high frequencies.

An external amp does not cost an arm and a leg - even the cheap ones from Sony and Pio (around 3.5-4.5K) make a lot of difference.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by DerAlte

Please do listen to a decent installation that has an amp, and compare with a comparable installation without an amp, before coming to such conclusions. Even the internal HU amp can go quite loud, but it distorts a lot at loud volumes. Listening to music loud is not the objective of fitting an external amp.

I've done exactly the same before deciding against it. The same stuff the accessories guy told me.

So, I asked him to connect the oval speakers. Then instead of asking him to tune the set, I tuned it myself.

Fader set at -3 ( in favor of rear speakers )
Bass at +6, center frequency for bass at 60 Hz , width of frequency band at 1 ( narrowest band )
Treble @ +6, center frequency at 15 kHz
Hpf set to off
Loud set to on

Tried increasing the volume according to my requirement and then increased it by 50% more than what I would require even when I want to blast, got more than adequate bass, mid and treble.

Then I asked the person to connect an amplifier and tune it. He did so. In the volume that I tried, there was literally zero advantage that I felt. I was on a set of good quality Polk audio speakers on the rear and infinity component speakers on the front. The rear speakers were fitted on a chipwood tray.

Then on my mother's Liva, again I went by the same system on a much inferior HU - the Toyota stock HU on 2011 model. Again, the result was awesome.

So, my advice to anyone exploring amplifier option is to try out without amps ( don't compromise on speakers, go for a good one - Polk , infinity, or alpine atleast ). JBL just gives big sound, not quality sound. Tune it hard, listen for a few days and then decide whether you still need an amplifier or not.

[vinjosep]

Originally Posted by amalji

Then on my mother's Liva, again I went by the same system on a much inferior HU - the Toyota stock HU on 2011 model. Again, the result was awesome. ...

Hi Amalji,

1) did you replace the stock speakers on Liva? If yes, then how was the connector from the stock HU handled (i believe the wires from HU to the stock speaker is via a connector, no?)
2) The connection from the HU to the rear, again how was this done?
3) Any other tips/ pointers? Am looking at replacing the stock speakers in our Liva as well as add a couple for the rear.

The nearby shops have been giving out conflicting info (varying prices as well). Have planned to visit a dealer shortly.

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by amalji

... Then instead of asking him to tune the set, I tuned it myself. ...

Not sure what you were trying to achieve, but ... Please try again with what is expected in a decent system:
Fader set at -3 ( in favor of rear speakers ) - set this to 0
Bass at +6, center frequency for bass at 60 Hz , width of frequency band at 1 ( narrowest band ) - set this to 0
Treble @ +6, center frequency at 15 kHz - set this to 0
Hpf set to off (doesn't matter)
Loud set to on - set this to Off

I am sure you will be able to see a difference between internal amp and external amp.

Originally Posted by amalji

... Then I asked the person to connect an amplifier and tune it. He did so. In the volume that I tried, there was literally zero advantage that I felt. ...

Originally Posted by amalji

... Then on my mother's Liva, again I went by the same system on a much inferior HU - the Toyota stock HU on 2011 model. Again, the result was awesome. ...

Sorry, but the way you have gone about comparing, I am sure no one would have been able to figure out the difference. So far you have only looked for confirming your own assumptions, and not checking what the systems sound inherently without and with an external amplifier.

[Apple Master]

I'm thinking of 6 x 9" oval rear speakers to be installed at the rear shelf of my Etios with spacers. My budget is at max 4k. I believe the stock Pioneer HU is powerful enough to power the rear speakers, so no need for amplifiers. Also I've no complaints against the front speakers, hence will keep them as it is.

I'm inclined towards Infinity speakers because of their clarity. So here are my choices:

• Infinity - Primus 9603i - 6 x 9 inch Coaxial Speakers (300 W) [Pair of Speakers]- Rs.3145
• Infinity - Reference 9603ix - 6 inch x 9 inch Speaker (300 W) [Pair Of Speakers]- Rs. 3500

These are Snapdeal prices after considering the 10% cashback offer.

I have the following queries:

• Both the above speakers are having the same specs but why the difference in price?
• What other speakers can I consider within my budget?

Thanks in advance

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by Apple Master

... Both the above speakers are having the same specs but why the difference in price? ...

Difference in materials. If one listens carefully one can detect the difference in sound output

Originally Posted by Apple Master

... What other speakers can I consider within my budget? ...

There are lots: JBL, Polk, Pioneer, Auditor, Bull ...

[Apple Master]

Originally Posted by DerAlte

Difference in materials. If one listens carefully one can detect the difference in sound output..

Any idea which one is better? I will try to listen to both if the accessory guys have both of these in stock.
Along with the Infinity Primus/ Reference 9603i-6x9" ovals I'm also interested in Polk Audio DB651- 6.5" round coaxials @4k. Seen a lot of rave reviews of this pair of Polk speakers on Crutchfield.com. Also it is worth mentioning that Etios has round groove markings for rear speakers.
Please give your opinion regarding which one is better, the Infinity ones or the Polk speakers? I'm not an audiophile, so a setup that produces reasonable sound will do just fine.

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by Apple Master

Any idea which one is better? ... also interested in Polk Audio DB651- 6.5" round coaxials ...

Infinity Reference. Polk DB is shrill / bright (rave reviews don't count - most of them haven't really heard it critically).

Originally Posted by Apple Master

... I'm not an audiophile, so a setup that produces reasonable sound will do just fine.

Everyone is an audiophile, baba. Some know it, some don't. Once they hear a good system, they know that is the one for them - it really doesn't have to be about cost.

[Apple Master]

So I installed Infinity Reference 6502ix at the rear shelf of Etios.

The accessories guys installed the speaker perfectly fine, but there was a problem at the headunit. The rear output at the stock Pioneer headunit donot have factory supplied wire harness, so they spliced the wires from the rear speaker with the front speaker harness and now I'm getting nice sound from the rear speakers. As I drove the car back to home today, I listened to music from radio and bluetooth and everything was fine.

But I was wondering is this setup any good, as I will not be able to adjust the fader, also quite obviously the volume has to be set a little higher e.g 25 instead of 18. Coming to a more serious question, is connecting rear and front speakers to the same harness safe !!! It appears safe to me, but I would really appreciate some expert opinion.

[vinjosep]

Originally Posted by Apple Master

So I installed Infinity Reference 6502ix at the rear shelf of Etios.

The accessories guys installed the speaker perfectly fine, but there was a problem at the headunit. The rear output at the stock Pioneer headunit donot have factory supplied wire harness, so they spliced the wires from the rear speaker with the front speaker harness and now I'm getting nice sound from the rear speakers. As I drove the car back to home today, I listened to music from radio and bluetooth and everything was fine.

But I was wondering is this setup any good, as I will not be able to adjust the fader, also quite obviously the volume has to be set a little higher e.g 25 instead of 18. Coming to a more serious question, is connecting rear and front speakers to the same harness safe !!! It appears safe to me, but I would really appreciate some expert opinion.

This might help me a bit, you mean the stock HU does not have a port for the rear speakers? Also, was this (fitting new speakers) done at the Toyota service center? I was told by the TSS in Bangalore that the stock HU comes with a separate connector option for rear speakers.

Any pictures of the install? especially the rear portion of the HU..

[Apple Master]

Originally Posted by vinjosep

This might help me a bit, you mean the stock HU does not have a port for the rear speakers? Also, was this (fitting new speakers) done at the Toyota service center? I was told by the TSS in Bangalore that the stock HU comes with a separate connector option for rear speakers.

Any pictures of the install? especially the rear portion of the HU..

The installation was made at a reliable aftermarket accessories shop. The TSS at Kolkata won't do the install. Sorry I could get a snapshot of the rear of HU. I will give the picture of the install shortly in my ownership review : http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...e-edition.html .

The HU has 4 output ports (40W*4), 2 front and 2 for rear. The front output ports are connected to the front speakers through a wire harness designed by Toyota to connect to the OEM stock HU. But the same kind of harness was not provided by Toyota for the rear speakers. As a result, though the HU has rear output, one can't connect the rear speaker wires to it, without the factory supplied harness. I asked the installation guys and they said this harness could only be obtained from Toyota (which btw is a dead end ). Because of this reason I allowed them to splice the rear speaker wires to the front speaker harness. No wires were cut and the warranty doesn't get void and also the change is reversible.

The present setup is doing just fine. However, if anyone has any idea about how I can get the wire harness from Toyota do share. I will immediately obtain it and connect the speakers to them.

Regarding the safety issue, I did some research. I was afraid that connecting two 4ohm speakers in parallel will draw more current from the HU(as the resultant parallel resistance is 2ohm).

I found out that the maximum tolerable current by the HU is 15A(the fuse rating is also 15A) and the biasing voltage is 13.2V. So, the minimum load resistance that the HU can handle without blowing the fuse is 13.2/15=0.88ohm.

In my setup the load resistance is 2ohm, which is well within the safety limit. Obviously there is a impedance mismatch so the power transfer is not maximum, but that can be eliminated by raising the volume slightly e.g 25 instead of 18.

Hope this helps.

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by Apple Master

... But the same kind of harness was not provided by Toyota for the rear speakers. As a result, though the HU has rear output, one can't connect the rear speaker wires to it, without the factory supplied harness. I asked the installation guys and they said this harness could only be obtained from Toyota (which btw is a dead end ). ...

Do you REALLY think Toyota would not bring out rear speaker output pins? Or is it that the 'reliable installer' couldn't figure out the pins at the harness adapter? And it is surprising that you find dealing with Toyota a.s.s. frustrating.

Please talk to Toyota service and ask them the pin numbers and the colours of the wires at the harness adapter.

Originally Posted by Apple Master

... I found out that the maximum tolerable current by the HU is 15A(the fuse rating is also 15A) and the biasing voltage is 13.2V. So, the minimum load resistance that the HU can handle without blowing the fuse is 13.2/15=0.88ohm. ...

:O Are you serious? That is the strangest load calculation I have ever seen! Please don't make such simplistic assumptions without knowing an amplifier's circuit and how it works. It is NOT an incandescent lamp!

The amp or accessories fuse will never blow under these circumstances BUT the output transistors in the amp IC definitely will. Not immediately, but the day you get carried away by a favourite song on a hot summer day, and crank up the volume. Please do conventional things - ask Toyota, not your 'reliable installer'.


Sent from my iPad using Team-BHP App

[Apple Master]

Originally Posted by DerAlte

Do you REALLY think Toyota would not bring out rear speaker output pins? Or is it that the 'reliable installer' couldn't figure out the pins at the harness adapter? And it is surprising that you find dealing with Toyota a.s.s. frustrating.

I'm not thinking anything here, I saw with my own eyes that there were no wire harness connected to the rear speaker output pins. Do you REALLY believe I'm lying about what I saw. Please don't make such simplistic assumptions.

Originally Posted by DerAlte

Please talk to Toyota service and ask them the pin numbers and the colours of the wires at the harness adapter.

Yes, I'm already in talks with them, but till now they have not been cooperative.

Originally Posted by DerAlte

:O Are you serious? That is the strangest load calculation I have ever seen! Please don't make such simplistic assumptions without knowing an amplifier's circuit and how it works. It is NOT an incandescent lamp!

Maybe I made things a too simple. Hell, I never claimed that my research was right, I pointed out what I thought was correct. Thanks for pointing out the mistake.

Originally Posted by DerAlte

The amp or accessories fuse will never blow under these circumstances BUT the output transistors in the amp IC definitely will. Not immediately, but the day you get carried away by a favourite song on a hot summer day, and crank up the volume. Please do conventional things - ask Toyota, not your 'reliable installer'.

I have tested the speakers at full volume, they worked fine on full AC. But yes I agree there is a potential of damage to the HU, and I don't support this connection by my 'reliable installer'. I am in talks with Toyota, hope something works out soon.

Cheers!!!