[Kumar R]

Hello all! I have just completed learning to drive three months ago and am very much at ease on a Maruti 800 (done some long drives in and out of the city). Unfortunately that vehicle is 28 years old and needs a lot of body work (and not reliable for long drives beyond 12-15 km) so I was planning on buying a used car and am right now deciding on the make to buy.

I read the main article on buying a used car and it was very helpful. I needed some pointers / suggestions on the make of used car to buy. My budget is 60-80k and I was interested in a compact but was open to a low end sedan with leg room. I was considering the Ford Ikon but after reading some of the posts it seems this is not recommended due to high cost of spares, maintenance. Now the most promising option seems a Maruti WagonR. I will be using the car for 20-25 kms daily from July.

I'm not knowledgeable about any makes so please could you guys offer some suggestions based on your own driving / ownership experience and my budget.

[AutoIndian]

Need your expert opinion. My company is opening a bidding process for CLC cars, which are to be sold off to company employees. The car details are mentioned below:

Toyota Innova 2.5V(2007), Colour Silver, Version - Diesel
Pune registration, MH-12-EM-0656
Odo reading not available
Lifetime Road Tax Paid
Insurance valid till 17-Nov-14
Minimum Acceptable Bid (hold your breath) Rs.2,85,000/-
Documents are available with the facilities dept, however RC card is unavailable

I would like to know from experienced forum members what is the max amount I should bid for this car. I know most of you would jump the gun and advise me to go for the car blind folded. However there is one caveat. This car has to be purchased on as-is where-is basis. I have seen this car lying around in the office parking at least for the last 4-5 years, standing in one position, totally unused all this while. It means this car has not been driven for such a long duration. What kind of technical challenges can be encountered in making this car roadworthy, up and running? Besides the regular replacements of tyres, battery, all fluids do you forsee any major replacement such as engine, transmission, clutch-gearbox, brake, steering, AC system etc?

I am ready to spend a maximum amount of 1 lacs, can stretch upto 2 lacs, with all the hassles. Would this car be worth this exercise?

Prompt responses would be highly appreciated as the bidding starts in the next 2 days.

[ramzsys]

In the last few months, i was scouting for an used Ikon diesel(2009+, tdci engine).

I came across several models with mileage ranging from 35k to 117k km; doctor owned, ex-military officer self driven, etc, etc.

1) In case of the doctor, i went to his clinic and was waiting; here's what i witnessed:

a) The doctor was driving with pedal to metal; black smoke was seen.
b) When i pointed to that, he said, just now turbocharger is replaced, so some 'residual' smoke can be seen.

c) Fuel gauge was almost empty.

d) Opened the bonnet. Full of soot.

At this point, the doctor told me that he will come back within 2 minutes; i nodded happily and never turned back.

2) This was my neighbour's car; he's done 1 lakh and did all the services at Ford regularly. Even the timing belt was changed, he assured. Everything proceeded well, except when he took me for a joyride in it. No idling the turbo, taking the rpm to 3k levels even before the engine is warmed up, etc, etc.
...............................

In short, the process of finding a well-maintained modern diesel car is turning out to be a futile exercise; there's not enough evidence to find out the state of turbo. A friendly car dealer told me the same; everyone thrashes their motors these days, so it is pointless to buy it used. Having said that, he said there's a i20 diesel in immaculate condition, and i can take a look if i want.

I went ahead and checked it; cosmetically it was okay. Started the engine and opened the bonnet, there was a whine from the turbo. He said "i20 turbo is powerful, so only this sound".

[StrangeWizard]

I bought a Chevrolet Beat on 13th May 2014 and it has completed a month.

The car has MH 01 registration while I stay in a place that falls under MH 02 RTO. Approximately how much time would it take for the RC to arrive at my place?

I guess an NOC would first be required from the MH 01 RTO before name change is done.

Any help would be appreciated

[turbodude]

My friend had a bad experience in buying a second hand car in 2010. He went to Ulhasnagar to buy a used Maruti 800. Once he finalized the model, he called a trusted mechanic and told him to inspect the car. To his horror, the mechanic just revved the engine a bit and certified that car engine is OK. He trusted and bought the car.

Then problems started coming up. The car was 2004 model of MPFI 4 gear Maruti 800 DX. The mechanic checked only engine. Faults started coming one after another. First rear tail light failed. Then rear left window pane went down but never came up. Needed assembly replacement. Then turn indicators failed. Some of the wiring part needed replacement. After 1 month, AC stopped working.

The car was rusted at bottom. He, his friend and mechanic never bothered to check the underside. The car turned out to be a July 2005 flood victim. Under-body was severely rusted. Fuel pipe was also rusted. Wheel bearings needed change.

Finally he got frustrated and sold the car to a dealer. He should have checked the car thoroughly instead of just depending on the mechanic.

[petroheadkaran]

Hi Guys,
I need help. A close family friend is planning to sell his Montero, its a 2007 truck and has 37000km on the ODO. Its been driven by him and his driver. He is asking for 17Lacs. Does the vehicle make sense at this cost, would i be able to sell it in a few years?? I will be driving close to 60km everyday, keeping that in mind does it make sense or is it better to go buy a new yeti/laura?

Lastly will parts be available for the montero, considering Mitsubishi has discontinued this model. Looking forward to your replies.

Details: Manual transmission
3.2 did engine
158 bhp
Pune registered

Any help will be greatly appreciated!
-Karan

[Shanksta]

Hi guys,
My uncle is planning to buy a used SUV in the price range of 5-8 lakhs. We had initially zeroed down on a Nissan X-Trail for 5lakhs 2004 model but then when we got it checked today at Nissan they said that there is at least 1.5-2 l worth of preventive maintenance to be done, even though it was mechanically fine. So we have dropped it now and are looking for/at the Hyundai Tucson and found one for 5.5, single owner, 95000 kms done,black color on olx http://m.olx.in/item/show/657256205 need your inputs (Tucson owners) as to it's reliability and maintenance cost. My uncle took a test drive and everything felt fine but he said in 2 wheel drive mode, while taking a u-turn he felt there was some kind of pull from the rear tires. The car he drove had worn down tires could this be a reason!?
Thanks in advance.

[mayankk]

Originally Posted by Shanksta

Hi guys,
My uncle is planning to buy a used SUV in the price range of 5-8 lakhs. We had initially zeroed down on a Nissan X-Trail for 5lakhs 2004 model but then when we got it checked today at Nissan they said that there is at least 1.5-2 l worth of preventive maintenance to be done, even though it was mechanically fine. So we have dropped it now and are looking for/at the Hyundai Tucson and found one for 5.5, single owner, 95000 kms done,black color on olx http://m.olx.in/item/show/657256205 need your inputs (Tucson owners) as to it's reliability and maintenance cost. My uncle took a test drive and everything felt fine but he said in 2 wheel drive mode, while taking a u-turn he felt there was some kind of pull from the rear tires. The car he drove had worn down tires could this be a reason!?
Thanks in advance.

You're sure the pull was in 2wd, and not 4wd?
For Chennai, the rate seems to be okay, but I'm sure you can negotiate. Parts are available the easiest at hyundai, but servicing costs are at par for a 18l rs car.
Worn out tyres mean at least 25 k minimum straight out for four of them.
Check the clutch, suspension, see when they've been fixed. Hope the turbo is good? There should be a quite noticeable kick around 1800 rpm. Also, the belts will be in for a change soon, that's a big cost.
As someone who was swimming the same seas just a year ago, though, it's been an unregrettable decision going for this car.

[Shanksta]

Originally Posted by mayankk

You're sure the pull was in 2wd, and not 4wd?
For Chennai, the rate seems to be okay, but I'm sure you can negotiate. Parts are available the easiest at hyundai, but servicing costs are at par for a 18l rs car.
Worn out tyres mean at least 25 k minimum straight out for four of them.
Check the clutch, suspension, see when they've been fixed. Hope the turbo is good? There should be a quite noticeable kick around 1800 rpm. Also, the belts will be in for a change soon, that's a big cost.
As someone who was swimming the same seas just a year ago, though, it's been an unregrettable decision going for this car.

Thank you for the reply. So is it normal, the pull he felt or abnormal. Ya we have quoted 4.5 for it will get it checked at Hyundai this weekend.

[mayankk]

Originally Posted by Shanksta

Thank you for the reply. So is it normal, the pull he felt or abnormal. Ya we have quoted 4.5 for it will get it checked at Hyundai this weekend.

Pull is not normal. Mine develops the pull, as if the rear inside wheel is fighting travel, in 4wd and it has been attributed to disuse. However, I drove a fellow bhpians Tucson, felt the same thing, though slightly less. However, it is a fault, and I will have to get it looked at.
Attributing the pull to the tyres, though, is wrong.

[Shanksta]

Originally Posted by mayankk

Pull is not normal. Mine develops the pull, as if the rear inside wheel is fighting travel, in 4wd and it has been attributed to disuse. However, I drove a fellow bhpians Tucson, felt the same thing, though slightly less. However, it is a fault, and I will have to get it looked at.
Attributing the pull to the tyres, though, is wrong.

Thank you for the info, was helpful. My uncle has finalized the Tucson for 4.57. But we are yet to get it checked. Also found the reason for the pull:
Your Tucson is mainly a FWD car.
When the AWD controller notices a 4% wheel slip at front, then it connects the rear diff in 0.6 sec, and as long as there is the wheel speed difference. Then it will disconnect again until next time.
[b]The "LOCK" must only be engaged, on slippery road condition (like rocking you out of a snowdrift or similar). When you select "LOCK", then the car is in a fixed 50/50 drive condition, and can't compensate for front to rear drive shaft rpm differences on tight turns. This will cause a "drive shaft windup", and makes the rear end hop/jump or give the feeling that the brakes come on.
The lock operation will be active only up to +-22 mph, and then the system will go to "NORMAL" AWD function as described above. HOWEVER, the system will go back into lock, when slowing down to the 22 mph speed.

[mayankk]

Originally Posted by Shanksta

Thank you for the info, was helpful. My uncle has finalized the Tucson for 4.57. But we are yet to get it checked. Also found the reason for the pull:
Your Tucson is mainly a FWD car.
When the AWD controller notices a 4% wheel slip at front, then it connects the rear diff in 0.6 sec, and as long --------snip------back into lock, when slowing down to the 22 mph speed.

Thanks for THAT!!
That's exactly what is happening with me. I didn't know this.
You faced the same presumably.

[dipak1406]

Dear Car Lovers

We car lovers always like to upgrade to bigger and faster vehicles and ideally as soon as possible.

As per the statistics of the World Bank only 0.8% Indians have assets or net worth over Rs. 45 lakhs and hence at times we are forced to compromise.

GTO came with wonderful article about Pre-Owned Cars some years back. Now we have a big industry capitalizing on this very strong desire of Car Lovers. It is now being observed that the Pre-owned cars prices have been steadily rising thanks to these Brokers.

This has amazing similarity to Real Estate boom. In approx. 2000 banks had started offering housing loan at low interest rates and at that time the flat prices in Mumbai were in range of Rs. 10 lacs to Rs. 18 lacs in suburbs.

As the people started warming to the concept of owning houses we found that the prices increased by 8 folds in 6 years time and now are 12 to 14 folds.

Coming back to our topic.

Current car lovers will find the pre-owned car market as below :-
a) go for top selling models - at huge premium eg. desire & swift diesel
b) certified cars but with premium ( courtesy brokers)
c) cars just under 5 years since bank provides loan for pre-owned cars which is 5 years old - but at premium

Off course there are TATAs and FIATs which have very poor resale value for buyers who DARE

Boss Dar ke Aage Jeet bhi hai aur Aansoo

d) huge drop in prices for cars over 6 years old as banks do not offer loans to purchase these cars

Internet and this wonderful forum is abuzz with check list however lets be fair to poor us who do not want to wrack our brains going through these check list. Nor desire to carry along our own reliable mechanic to seeing various cars shortlisted.

People like us would like to take an easy way which ideally would be

a) buy car which is 2 years old with less kilometers.
Advantage - as good as new cars with very little probability of going wrong
Disadvantage - you need to have big bucks as the price difference in comparison to new would be approx. Rs 2 lacs
b) buy cars certified by professionals and pay huge premium


Amid the turmoil is there a way wherein a common man like us can get the car he loves at huge discount at the same time have peace of mind ?

This is where your inputs will be tremendously appreciated.

1. It has been observed that most modern cars age very slowly / graciously.

2. Can we buy a 9 to 10 year old car at deep discount. These cars will be priced dirt cheap in range of Rs. 2 lakhs. We check the engine to ensure that it is in good working condition.

3. Now before bringing the car home, if we change the tyres, clutch and suspension which will be an added cost of not more than Rs. 1,20,000 maximum.

Will this exercise ensure that we have a car in fantastic mechanical condition.

Are we correct to assume that if Suspension, clutch and tyres are changed then the car will be as good as new for another 5 years ?

The logic behind this is that we can have a fantastic car at rock bottom price and at the same time beat these brokers / car agents in their game.

Waiting for your feedback

regards Deepak

[NetfreakBombay]

Originally Posted by dipak1406

2. Can we buy a 9 to 10 year old car at deep discount. These cars will be priced dirt cheap in range of Rs. 2 lakhs. We check the engine to ensure that it is in good working condition.

3. Now before bringing the car home, if we change the tyres, clutch and suspension which will be an added cost of not more than Rs. 1,20,000 maximum.

Will this exercise ensure that we have a car in fantastic mechanical condition.

Are we correct to assume that if Suspension, clutch and tyres are changed then the car will be as good as new for another 5 years ?

Given that your location is Mumbai, rust in body panels + structural parts would be a much bigger concern.

Probability of rust on parts like cowl , door panels is high and these parts might require replacement.

[Jeroen]

Its difficult for me to comment on the Indian specific pre-owned car situation, but let me share my own experience with pre-owned cars in Europe and the USA.

I'm lucky that I have had company cars for as long as I can remember and they are always brand new. In Europe, depending on model and lease company, you get to keep them up to 120-150.000 kilometers.

In my home country the Netherlands, if you have a company car and you also use it for private mileage, you have to pay tax. How its done is they take 25% of the catalogue value including all the options and that amount is added to your income every year. Now, in the Netherlands I used to pay approx 60% income tax.

So here's how it works, say the company car was an Audi A6 of Euro 100.000.
Every year I drove that car 25%, i.e. Euro 25.000 was added to my income and over the additional 25.000 I would pay 60% tax, so the company car, for my private usage, irrespective of my actual mileage would cost me Euro 15.000 per year.

For that sort of money I could buy privately a very nice, very high end, fully loaded top of the range pre-owned car. As I'm a bit of car enthusiast I usually own several cars and some classic cars at any given point in time. So I usually ticked the box on my income tax return form of "no private usage". And yes, the Dutch tax office would and can check if that's true. I'll get my own cars, for my own mileage and leave the company car for the business mileage.

So my cars I buy personally for my private use have always been pre-owned. I look for anything 5-10 years with at least 100-150.000 kilometers on the clock.

The company cars (e.g. Audi, Mercedes, BMW) were fine for the 60-90.000 km per year business trips, they're comfortable, safe, but also quite boring and nothing special really. But second hand I can indulge in just about anything under the sun. Depreciation on cars 5-10 years is astonishing. And as long as they are maintained reasonably well 150.000 km on a modern car is barely run in.

On these sort of pre-owned cars, the depreciation is virtually zilch, it's not worth insuring them fully comprehensive either, you really only need 3rd party coverage and that's dead cheap too. So all the cost is maintenance and fuel more or less.

And for that you get to drive a top of the range Jaguar, Maserati etc.
to give you an example, I bought my 2003 Jaguar XJR in the US for $10-12.000,--. the MRP (and I have the official dealer MRP-plauge) was around $75.000.

I bought it in August 2009, so that car depreciated some $60.000 in six years, that is $10.000 per year! And I bought it with just under 100.000 miles on the clock. Even if I was going to spend $75.000 I would probably prefer to buy several pre-owned cars, rather then one brand new.

Couple of years later, close to 40.000 miles more on the clock it has hardly depreciated further.

So even if you have to spend some money on it (e.g. tires) from a financial point of view it still makes sense. Now, some people are just not comfortable buying a second hand car, because they think its' going to cost them a lot of money maintaining it. My experience is that that is not true, but you do need to know what you are getting yourself into. So I will do a very thorough inspection myself and or have it done by a garage/dealer that I know and or trust. Not a hundred percent guarantee, but at least it will give me some understanding on what I can expect. Sometimes I find things that I can use to negotiate the price down, or find things that make me walk away from the car no matter what the purchase price is.

I have only once in my life bought a new car, a Talbot Samba for my wife. This was many years ago, we just got married, I was still in the merchant navy, away from home six months at a time. She was just new into her new job and needed a car and was very nervous about second hand cars. So we bought a brand new one, albeit a very little one. Unfortunately it was the worst buy ever. Never had so many problems with any car and then about 18 months into it Talbot folded. So we sold it and bough her a very nice pre-owned Volvo 340 and since then she must have owned at least 15 pre-owned cars as well. As my wife gets a little nervous when cars get more then 5 years old and more then 100.000km on the clock, we tend to buy 3-4 year old mid size saloons for her. Ford Focus. As far as I'm concerned 3-4 years with normal usage is really no problem whatsoever, but it might still knock 50% of the retail price and still have some warranty left!

In the end it is a very personal choice where you balance cost, initial outlay, with convenience, extra maintenance (?), status, or you just enjoy a new car, fair enough.

Although not a fact, but only (my) opinion; there is nothing rational about buying cars. Car nerds like us, like to talk about it endlessly, write page after page on forums like these, to convince each other, or ourselves that we are making the best possible choices. But those are only good choices in the eyes of the beholder, which is of course, extremely relevant for each of us, but hardly an exact science. But that is probably (part of) the fun!

Enjoy those cars!

Jeroen