[2000rpm]

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

1. For a given budget, when we go the pre-worshipped route, we can always buy a better car in terms of everything. But identifying the right car is a huge gamble.
2. In terms of performance, you get more from a pre-worshipped one than a new one of the same cost. (for eg - buying a Seltos at 20L vs buying a used Compass at 20L).
3. If it is going to be lemon, how do you manage it? In fact, how do you identify in the first place, whether it is a lemon or not?
4. Do you really care about the reason for the sale from the owner? If so, how do you know the authenticity?
5. How to convince the family members who don't like the pre-worshipped route at all?

My answers below

1. For a given budget, when we go the pre-worshipped route, we can always buy a better car in terms of everything. But identifying the right car is a huge gamble. - Above 10 lakhs, I will certainly buy a new car only. I buy used because of the value used cars have in the 4-7 lakh bracket.
2. In terms of performance, you get more from a pre-worshipped one than a new one of the same cost. (for eg - buying a Seltos at 20L vs buying a used Compass at 20L). - The performance improvement is incremental and hence a new car will always be more peace of mind purchase.
3. If it is going to be lemon, how do you manage it? In fact, how do you identify in the first place, whether it is a lemon or not? - Refer to the Team-BHP PDI Checklist please.
4. Do you really care about the reason for the sale from the owner? If so, how do you know the authenticity? - No, if my assessment of the car is good, I buy it. I have bought 7 used cars so far. When you buy a used car, assume 10-15% of car value will be used for repairs. Negotiate accordingly (unless the car is in warranty).
5. How to convince the family members who don't like the pre-worshipped route at all? - Get them to test drive a 5 lakh Swift and then show them a Civic for 3 lakhs

[fawad0222]

There is a long thread over the benefits of buying a pre-worshipped car by GTO. "Not so obvious advantages of....". You can go though it and later let us know your experience.

[hagarthenormal]

Hello All,

This is my first post. The mods may kindly point me to the apt thread if there is a better used car buying advice thread to post the following query:

I have been looking since long for a good used 530d from a known source, (preferably registered in Bangalore).

Does any one in our Team-BHP community know of this 530d listed in the classifieds? Either the owner or the car or both - https://classifieds.team-bhp.com/buy...5-Series.html/. If yes, kindly advise if the pricing looks reasonable for the condition of the car.

Thank you.

[vasudeva]

In 28 years of vehicle ownership and 26 years of car ownership, I bought a used car for the first time in Sep 21. Top end Toyota Yaris VX CVT for 10 (less price for old 2007 Corolla). Frankly, a great experience, for now. Features are great and for same price, I was getting a new Glanza or an Urban Cruiser. The Yaris is a flop no doubt, but hardly matters to me. My new used is 26,000 km and with 3,000 km per annum of driving, should be 60,000 km after 10-12 years.

[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

Some of the reasons for my dilemma

1. For a given budget, when we go the pre-worshipped route, we can always buy a better car in terms of everything. But identifying the right car is a huge gamble.
2. In terms of performance, you get more from a pre-worshipped one than a new one of the same cost. (for eg - buying a Seltos at 20L vs buying a used Compass at 20L).
3. If it is going to be lemon, how do you manage it? In fact, how do you identify in the first place, whether it is a lemon or not?
4. Do you really care about the reason for the sale from the owner? If so, how do you know the authenticity?
5. How to convince the family members who don't like the pre-worshipped route at all?

Finally, what is your advice/recommendation to me to replace my "new car that is a lemon" from Tata stable to replace it with a pre-worshipped car?

Our last pre-owned buy was near 20 years ago in 2002 or thereabouts when we got a deal on a 2001 Honda Accord.
Since then we've stuck to new cars mainly till 2017 : 2 of our last 3 purchases have been used and it was a hit or miss convincing the family.

1. I stick to low run, within warranty examples as much as possible and that would be my recommendation as well.
This means the car has only been serviced at the authorized workshop (because no owner would want to pay for what repairs could be covered under warranty), and full service history is available. I also get a paid inspection by the authorized dealership to make sure everything is as it should be.
Our 328i was an exception : 5 years old at time of purchase but it was being sold by a BMW dealer & had full service history.

2. Maybe not performance but you can get a nicer car. Octavia at 30L or pre-owned A4 at 25L? However, if my budget is say 30L, I would keep a 20% margin for within warranty cars for safety sake. In the case of the 328i, I had a 35%-40% margin compared to the vRS so I was adequately prepared. Nearly 4 years later I still have some buffer space in that margin which has been utilized for mods
However do keep in mind that the older the car gets, the more maintenance it would require so budget accordingly. So while a 4L E Class sounds good for someone with a 6L budget going by the above theory : the 15 year old E Class could cost 2L/year to maintain do do your research well on what to expect.

3. Service history. If it's a lemon it'll show up in there. Also get a paid inspection done by authorized dealer before hand. Should cut down risk substantially but nothing is 100% even with new vehicles.

4. Not relevant : vehicle condition and clear title is more important.

5. So convincing family was a little hard. We prefer new cars but the pricing off late has just been bonkers. The 328i wasn't a big challenge as it was going to be my daily whilst the ES was a little more challenging but when you consider 25% savings, better perceived CBU build, etc. It became a lot easier to convince the family.
At the end of the day we buy with enough buffer space in budget / only if we can afford the car new.

[Kumaran93R]

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

1. For a given budget, when we go the pre-worshipped route, we can always buy a better car in terms of everything. But identifying the right car is a huge gamble.

In my family, we have owned over 20 cars in the last 60 years. None of them till now have been bought new, and I don't think we'll buy new in the foreseeable future. Cars are one of the biggest expenses in your life. The first two being taxes and a house.

Taxes are unavoidable. A house is an appreciating asset. But a new car bought with a loan is the worst type of big expense that one can make. You loose 20% of the value the moment you drive it off the dealership. And add a loan to it, you're paying interest on something that you are loosing money on. Calculate the lost opportunity cost on investing that capital, in a five year ownership period, you'll be looking at a huge amount.

1. Yes, selecting the car is very important. Narrow down to two-three models that are known to give your priorities.

For eg, I'm looking for a chauffer driven second car for my dad. I've narrowed it down to 2006-08 Corolla, Honda City and SX4. These fit his requirements for a second car very well. Good back seat space and low maintenance cost. And easy enough to drive in town if he wants to. Fuel efficiency is a bit of a problem, but his primary car is a diesel vento which will be munching the highway miles.

Now, the most important part for choosing a used car is patience. Think of it like waiting for a new Hyundai Creta. You'll have to look at atleast three examples to know what conditions the cars will be in. Then you'll go through almost ten cars to find your perfect fit.

I waited three years to find my perfect car. A blue Fiesta 1.6 S. I knew it was a very rare car to find. But it fit my needs perfectly. I wanted a sporty sedan with a good NA engine and a great hydraulic steering. I had a Figo TDCi which was doing duty till I laid my hands on the 1.6S. So I was patient til the right car came by. I know that three years might seem a long time, but for a 1.6S, it was worth it. I feel even more connected to my car now, because of the wait.

In that three years, I have come across all sorts of examples of Fiestas. Ones that had the body kit. Ones that were diesel but with a 1.6S badge. Ones that had rust issues. Ones that had reversed odo readings. But be patient, the right car will come to you.

Of course, the whole process will be much much quicker if you choose a well sold car, like a swift or even a civic.

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

2. In terms of performance, you get more from a pre-worshipped one than a new one of the same cost. (for eg - buying a Seltos at 20L vs buying a used Compass at 20L).

By going used, you get pretty much more of everything. You can easily get a used City instead of a new Amaze. You can get a used Corolla instead of a City.

The only exceptions to this rule would be with compact SUVs. This is a new category that has cropped up. Even then, I find that the EcoSport still drives a lot better than the Venue / Sonnet et al.

The other exception is in features. Most of the used cars won't have fancy bluetooth connectivity, android auto and the likes. But for most cars, this would be an easy retrofit. My sister's 2001 Alto 1.1 VXi has android auto for eg. Things like sun roofs and fuel efficient automatics might be a bit difficult to get though.

And you get a lot more value if you go for cars that are more than seven years old. For eg, a 20L new Creta vs a 20L BMW X1.

Also, older cars have quite a different set of advantages, like parts availability. Cars older than 15 years will have parts from salvaged cars. We had two opel astras till 2013, both clocked 2.25L kms. Again, patience is the key. Also, having multiple cars helps a lot with old cars. It wouldn't be a good idea to have a 10+ year old car as your daily driver.

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

3. If it is going to be lemon, how do you manage it? In fact, how do you identify in the first place, whether it is a lemon or not?

To rule out a lemon, prefer owner sales than from used car dealerships. (Stealerships in Bangalore) And take her on a long test drive. There are plenty of youtube videos on how to check a used car. Also, take along a mechanic or ask to take the car to your FNG. Most genuine sellers should be okay with this. If the owner is an enthusiast with good records for the car, you most likely won't end up with a lemon.

It is also easy to avoid lemons. Check the number of owners and the number of kms. An unusually low run car with high number of owners is a risk. Check with the dealerships for the service history.

And in the worst scenario if you end up with a lemon, try to fix the car with an FNG's help. If that doesn't help, get a polish, wax and interior detailing and sell the car. Just a good detailing of a used car usually increases its value

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

4. Do you really care about the reason for the sale from the owner? If so, how do you know the authenticity?

I do ask this question to find out more about what the owner thinks about the car. But don't expect honesty here. Just expect the worst and be prepared for it.

For eg, when we bought my dad's Vento, the owner said that he's selling the car as its windshield cracked on an auspicious day. Either way, we bought the car and one injector conked off after a week. Turns out that he had just gotten the ECU reset to hide the error code. But we got an almost pristine Vento for 5L, when the new one was selling for 15L. So the additional 30k for the injector didn't really make much of a difference when compared to the amount we had already saved. And the 1.6 TDi is well known for bad injectors too, so it wasn't an unexpected one.

So, I'd say, just be prepared for the worst. For most modern cars, worst case scenario would be a 1L repair for a DSG or a turbo. Just keep that in mind when buying the car.

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

5. How to convince the family members who don't like the pre-worshipped route at all?

This is perhaps the hardest question of them all. My girlfriend comes from a family where they've never bought a used car. She wasn't convinced when I wanted to 'upgrade' to a 2009 Fiesta from a 2013 Figo. She urged me to look at some new cars. I'm glad that she loved driving that she drove my Figo and a new Swift and understood what build quality and handling is. I asked her to show me one car that handled better than the 1.6S under 30L and I'll buy that instead. (Abarth had been discontinued) But sadly, cars like the 1.6S aren't simply built today.

But at the end of the day, we are car enthusiasts. Our choices are driven by emotions and not by thinking. Heck if everyone was thinking just with numbers, 99% of members would be better off with taking Ola / Uber daily than buying and maintaining a car. I look at buying any car as an irrational decision anyway. So why not go all the way than going just half the way?

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

Finally, what is your advice/recommendation to me to replace my "new car that is a lemon" from Tata stable to replace it with a pre-worshipped car?

From your Harrier thread, I would actually like you to consider the TATA Hexa, Jeep Compass and Innova Crysta 2.8 AT.

Tata Hexa would be a great car. Much better suspension than the Harrier. Even bigger on the inside. Might be a bit cumbersome than the Harrier inside Chennai. But you'll get good examples for 10L. So invest the amount in hiring a driver when you're inside the city. Much easier than even driving an automatic hatchback. Or get a used automatic hatchback like a used Celerio for in-town duties.

Jeep Compass is much for the driver in you than your family. But on highways it is much more planted than any other car in your consideration.

Innova Crysta 2.8 AT. This car is reliable. And it is much faster than most cars on the road today. You can also get it remapped and get the most out of this engine.

As a wild card, I'd throw in a used 2012 Camry Hybrid or 2012+ Jetta TDI. You can get very good deals on both. And it'll be much more comfortable on these than any other SUVs that you've considered. Again, just hire a chauffeur or get a small hatchback for in-town duties.

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[Thegermanbadger]

I'm currently 30 and only bought used or pre-worshiped cars.

I'll give you a short on my experiences and expenses of buying some cars with not the best reputation.

My first was a mk1 Skoda Octavia vRS, then a t31 Nissan X-Trail, a B6 1.8tsi VW Passat, a E60 BMW 530i, E90 BMW 325i, Toyota LC120 Prado and finally a F25 BMW X3 3.0d.

The X3 was the most expensive at over 10 lakh. Other than that every car has been in the 2-6 lakh range.

They have all served me well. Only usables like suspension bits like bushes and struts, oils and filter have been replaced. Batteries and tyres too.

The vRS gave me some fuel pump issues (10k to fix) but was bullet proof. Drove it for 50k kms in 3 years. And hard.

The xtrail was bullet proof only had a leaking axle boot and servicing in 4 years and 40k kms.

These cars I've sold.

The passat was very low milage at 10k kms when I bought it. Drives like a new car. Done about 23k kms on it now. Manual 1.8 tsi is a hoot. Some of the features put even the 5 series to shame.

The e60 and e90(also sold) were the oldest and surprisingly have been very well controlled and not given me any real issues till now. Everything works in the e60 electric steering and headrests. The automatic shades. Sunroof and all. New battery and front suspension work like bushes and struts. Had it for almost a year and done about 10k kms.

The lc120 prado is a landcrusier and only got new tyres and full service. It's a 1grfe 4.0 v6 petrol. Very reliable engine.

The f25 x3 is the newest and greatest. It's n57 3.0d is a beast of a motor. The selectable dampers and all wheel drive give it immense control and the handles like a car half it's weight. It's a great daily currently. Looking at f30 328i or something in the near future.

I would say for the cost of a new Octavia or compass about 30+ lakh I got 4 different cars that do completely different things and keep me entertained and for me that is why I'm into cars. I just love good engines and engineering. Dynamics play a big part too.

I never have to look outside my own garage to either cruise in a big comfy 6 cylinder or be engaged in a manual and blip on the downshifts and hear the turbo spool. I could go off road and daily a comfortable, powerful car.

I would not have been able to do that if I bought 1 car with my budget. I get the peace of mind and stigma of used vehicles but after having owned so many in the last 7 years, they become yours after the first tank full and wash. 2 days into driving any of my used cars gave me a feel good factor and butterflies.

There are many things I do before I buy used that's for sure. I check the full service history and get the car checked at my trusted shop. I also bargain very hard and due to me being based in Delhi and the pandemic I got most of my cars as a great deal.

It's a true vfm scene in my head.

The rest is always subjective and you should do whatever brings you a smile with your hard earned money.

Cheers.

[lemedico]

Valid discussion, however you haven't factored in the new scrap rules for decade old diesels and 1.5 decade old petrols. With these rules, how do you now ascertain if the second hand buy is actually economically clever?

[alpha1]

Originally Posted by lemedico

Valid discussion, however you haven't factored in the new scrap rules for decade old diesels and 1.5 decade old petrols. With these rules, how do you now ascertain if the second hand buy is actually economically clever?

What scrap rule?
I just got my 2001 Honda City re-registered after paying Green tax (received the RC last week).
Road validity for next 5 years.

[babhishek]

Originally Posted by alpha1

What scrap rule?
I just got my 2001 Honda City re-registered after paying Green tax (received the RC last week).
Road validity for next 5 years.

That is a petrol car .

[Thegermanbadger]

Originally Posted by lemedico

Valid discussion, however you haven't factored in the new scrap rules for decade old diesels and 1.5 decade old petrols. With these rules, how do you now ascertain if the second hand buy is actually economically clever?

All my cars are valid for the next 3-5 years. All my cars are petrol except the x3. Most have HR registration that is valid for 15 years. I know I won't be able to drive some like the 530i from 2023 in NCR but can send that to my family property in Himachal. Or scrap it for about 50 percent of the value I bought it for.

I paid a low price for my cars, I drive them to the ground in the next, say 2 years and scrap them I still get back most of my money. I don't keep cars for more than about 4 years as I buy used and can't really keep them longer. Also, hope my income goes up in that period of time and can afford better(?) Cars.

I feel the depreciation on a used car is much lower than on a new car that depending on model can loose upwards of 20 percent a year. Cars like the LC 120 Prado are actually appreciating. I've gotten offers for like 3-4 lakh more than I bought it for.

I recently sold my beautiful silver BMW 325i e90. It was kind of an unintentional flip. Bought it from a kind uncle spent some money on tyres and servicing. Sold it for a little more than it costed me.

The silly rule is killing off some great cars that are forced to be scrapped or scaring owners to sell them at throw away prices. I've seen some very clean and great cars going for nothing in Delhi.

Cheers

[Shivam]

Originally Posted by Thegermanbadger

The X3 was the most expensive at over 10 lakh. Other than that every car has been in the 2-6 lakh range.

Are you serious? 2-6 lakh for each of these mentioned cars! I just checked the timestamps and I feel like I'm living in a different world, or is it just the NCR advantage?

[Thegermanbadger]

Originally Posted by Shivam

Are you serious? 2-6 lakh for each of these mentioned cars! I just checked the timestamps and I feel like I'm living in a different world, or is it just the NCR advantage?

I guess it's the NCR advantage.

I got my vRS for 2 lakhs from the owner on team-bhp only. This was in 2014-2015. I sold it for almost the same amount 3-4 years later.

I got my e60 530i for 4 lakhs through a friend who knew someone selling his. Etc. Don't want to give out all the prices in public.

A friend of mine recently bought a w212 E350 CDI for about 4-5 lakh in Delhi and took it to Mumbai and now has a great fully functioning 250 bhp 600nm drive.

There is lots of negotiation and research done on the car before I go ahead and buy it.

Cheers.

[BNG-motorhead]

Originally Posted by Thegermanbadger

There is lots of negotiation and research done on the car before I go ahead and buy it.

Please share some research points, planning to do this for the first time!

[MT_Hyderabad]

Originally Posted by GTO

So, we all know the obvious advantages to buying used cars (primarily, price)....

Wow, found this thread and it is amazing. I would like to add a few points to the long list on page 1.

Not so obvious advantage #17
No waiting period. You buy what you see.
I hate waiting periods, no matter how small they are.

Not so obvious advantage #18
Cheaper parts than the new car.
Many aftermarket manufacturers get into the business overtime and you get much cheaper parts than the new car. Plastic or performance, I am talking about all parts here.

Not so obvious advantage #19
No claim bonus. If you got a car that has unutilised insurance from its previous owner, you get this benefit when you transfer the NCB to your new policy.

Not so obvious advantage #20
You can solve many things DIY by finding issues, root causes and solutions on threads on Teambhp. For example, I knew how to overcome hesitation on my Tata Safari even before I bought it. It is related to EGR and one has to take the car at 3000 or above rpms for a few minutes. This was not even known to Tata engineers and they solved it after the issues started cropping up. On a new car, one has to wait for a few years until this info gets public!

Not so obvious advantage #21
In some cases, you end up paying less taxes. If I were to buy a 15 lakh car now in Hyderabad, the life tax is 17%. However, the same car has paid lifetime road tax at 12% a year before. You enjoy the roads with lesser input. The same is the case with GST. If someone changed the clutch plate when the rate was 12% and you got the car. You don't have to get it changed at the rate of 28% now.

Not so obvious advantage #22
You don't have to visit the RTO for vehicle verification, chassis imprints etc etc. You just go and transfer the ownership. Hassle free transfer, even the car is not needed.