[mempheS.D]

So a quick run to madhus as usual. For some reason, this is always how I usually run into madhus. Never planned. Or maybe im just getting used to their prompt service that im in and out just like through a fuel bunk.

This time was a little bit different. The usual time I spend is 30 mins. This time I spent about 2 hours. But guess what? Its the Roadforce wheel balancer doing its job. It applies real world forces on the tire in addition to the usual wheel balancing that the older machine used to do. And then also decides the order in which the tires must be installed so that the NET PULL is zero or minimal.

I'd like nikhil to help us understand this better. One of my tires had this issue where the meter was showing beyond tolerance level. After adjusting the tire position to the alloy as recommended by the machine, the gauge was still beyond permissible limits. Below is a picture showing this:

Attachment 1053467

What does this mean? A faulty tire?

Nevertheless the unanimous decision was to use the stepinee tire to replace the faulty tire. I am a little worried about this because the stepinee was never used ever from the date of purchase June 2011. And the faulty joe goes in as stepinee. Fair decision.

And after that the prescribed order was this for ZERO PULL.

Attachment 1053462

Excellent. This is the way it needs to be done so that all test drives can be minimized after balancing.

The rates are just an additional few rupees per tyre if you d like to get it done on the roadforce road balancer as against the old wheel balancing equipment which is still functional.

WAY TO GO MADHUS!!!

[Nikhilb2008]

Originally Posted by PearlJam

Hi Nikhil,
I went to Sagar Automobiles, and they investigated the rear axle alignment issue, and said that the whole assembly needs to be changed, since there is a minor bend (probably due to some pothole) and it will cost around Rs.8000/-. They said that is the only way. Since you mentioned that it may be around 1000/-, I just wanted to re-verify.

One of my tyres have already gone bad, so I need to fix this before changing the tyres. Thanks!

I mentioned 1000/- for the alignment. Normal alignment which we do is cheaper because we adjust only the toe. If you expect the service centre to dismantle the suspension and everything, they will charge more. Around 1000/-.

But if the service centre guys are saying that the component itself is bent and has to be replaced, then maybe they are right.

If you do spend 8k and get it replaced, take a written commitment from them that if there are any alignment issues, they will rectify them free of cost.

@mxx, Memphes, others: Thanks for the kind words.

[Nikhilb2008]

Originally Posted by sagarpadaki

Nikhil, any updates on the mushroom patch? Hope you remember it. Last time i visited your place, Mr.Ravi had no idea about when it would be available.

He suggested a hot patch which is done from the inside of the tyre. My question to you is, how safe is it on a tubeless tyre? Assuming i will use that tyre only on rear wheel usage, can i consider that as an alternative option ?

We have had problems getting hold of a good supplier. We have finally zeroed in on one and will be ordering the kit next week. So hopefully by the end of the month we should have it ready.

A heat patch is very unsafe on a tubeless tyre. It can be used only in an emergency for a short distance.

@Memphes_D - Images are not opening. Please repost. Will help me understand the situation better.

[Rubbertramps]

Changed my tyres to MRF ZLO at Madhus. The experience is here

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...nto-mjd-3.html

[arun_josie]

Finally said bye-bye to the stock JKs after 48748 KMs. But I should say that it served the purpose for me with no break downs.

Changed it to Michelin XM2 yesterday @ Madhus.

Thanks to Nikhil for all his inputs to take a decision on Michelin XM2 and for being around during the Tyre change, Wheel Balancing and Wheel Alignment. Also, he explained the complete process of their new "Hunter road force balancer machine". The entire process was done in flat 1 hour. I am very satisfied with their Service.

[Vid6639]

Just wondering, is road force balancing required even for new tyres? Tyres like Michelin, Yoko should already be manufactured as per tight tolerances to prevent drift.

[Nikhilb2008]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

Just wondering, is road force balancing required even for new tyres? Tyres like Michelin, Yoko should already be manufactured as per tight tolerances to prevent drift.

Yes, but mounting error could cause excess Road Force.

Traditional tyres came with a yellow and red dot to signify the high and low point on the tyres. Michelin doesnt come with these dots.

Also, tyre pull could exist even in brand new tyres. Even Michelin. It will be very minor but it is good to know about it before we send the car from our place.

[arun_josie]

Originally Posted by PearlJam

Hi Nikhil,

I went to Sagar Automobiles, and they investigated the rear axle alignment issue, and said that the whole assembly needs to be changed, since there is a minor bend (probably due to some pothole) and it will cost around Rs.8000/-. They said that is the only way. Since you mentioned that it may be around 1000/-, I just wanted to re-verify.

One of my tyres have already gone bad, so I need to fix this before changing the tyres. Thanks!

Have you changed the axle? If so, did it resolve the issue?

I took my car to Bimal - Bannerghatta road today for a similar issue. Initially they came up saying my tyre has done 49K Kms and hence there is nothing to be concerned about the alignment. Their logic is, if there is a problem with the alignment then they tyre wouldn't survive 49K Kms, it would have been a goner by 20-30K.

I was adamant this time and asked for the specific cause on why the rear axle/toe is out of range and it is increasing every 5K Kms when the alignment is done. I gave them the last 5 alignment reports(3 done by Madhus and 2 by Bimal). They analyzed all the reports and then discussed with some seniors from other BIMAL centers. After this they decided to check the rear axle for any bends/damages. The car was lifted and check was done but they couldn't find any damages/bends in the axle. Since I have changed the tyres to Michelin last week, they asked for any photo of my old tyres showing the tyre wear issue. I have sent it to them and in the evening they called me and informed that they have send the complete issue details to Maruti and awaiting their response. I will update the status once I get a response from BIMAL.

[PearlJam]

Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008

I mentioned 1000/- for the alignment. Normal alignment which we do is cheaper because we adjust only the toe. If you expect the service centre to dismantle the suspension and everything, they will charge more. Around 1000/-.

But if the service centre guys are saying that the component itself is bent and has to be replaced, then maybe they are right.

If you do spend 8k and get it replaced, take a written commitment from them that if there are any alignment issues, they will rectify them free of cost.

Thanks Nikhil! I went to Madhus yesterday and did the roadforce balancing. Really amazing. It rejected two of my tyres as bad, and suggested a best position for all of them. Anyway, I plan to replace them within the next few months, and the guy at the counter quoted a good price for XM2's.

Surprisingly, the 5 set of OEM tyres have only run 34000 Kms. I knew that the OEM suppied JK tyres were bad, but didn't expect they would be *so* bad! The guy at the counter said that life of the tyres was almost over (though tyre treads are still pretty good and deep). The was no real noticeable uneven wear on any of them. Is this a standard life of OEMs? Does the rubber quality affect the rating given by the roadforce balancer too?

One more thing - Even though I did a wheel alignment at Sagar (and got the perfect toe alignment report) as part of regular servicing, I re-did the wheel alignment at Madhus since I wanted to do both in one place. Madhus showed the toe as incorrect, and they adjusted it again. But surprisingly, the car started pulling to the left, and I realized that only the next day. I took it to Sagar auto again today, they re-did the alignment as per their machine, and now it's pulling fine. I'm not sure if there could be an issue with the alignment machine at Madhus?

Originally Posted by arun_josie

Have you changed the axle? If so, did it resolve the issue?

No, I did not get it fixed. A little senior guy at Madhus (I don't know the name) said that I can ignore the red values since they are not really bug, provided I do the wheel rotation every 5000kms. For now, I'm not doing anything, and plan to fix the whole thing when I change the tyres in a few months.

[Nikhilb2008]

Originally Posted by PearlJam

Thanks Nikhil! I went to Madhus yesterday and did the roadforce balancing. Really amazing. It rejected two of my tyres as bad, and suggested a best position for all of them. Anyway, I plan to replace them within the next few months, and the guy at the counter quoted a good price for XM2's.

Surprisingly, the 5 set of OEM tyres have only run 34000 Kms. I knew that the OEM suppied JK tyres were bad, but didn't expect they would be *so* bad! The guy at the counter said that life of the tyres was almost over (though tyre treads are still pretty good and deep). The was no real noticeable uneven wear on any of them. Is this a standard life of OEMs? Does the rubber quality affect the rating given by the roadforce balancer too?

One more thing - Even though I did a wheel alignment at Sagar (and got the perfect toe alignment report) as part of regular servicing, I re-did the wheel alignment at Madhus since I wanted to do both in one place. Madhus showed the toe as incorrect, and they adjusted it again. But surprisingly, the car started pulling to the left, and I realized that only the next day. I took it to Sagar auto again today, they re-did the alignment as per their machine, and now it's pulling fine. I'm not sure if there could be an issue with the alignment machine at Madhus?



No, I did not get it fixed. A little senior guy at Madhus (I don't know the name) said that I can ignore the red values since they are not really bug, provided I do the wheel rotation every 5000kms. For now, I'm not doing anything, and plan to fix the whole thing when I change the tyres in a few months.

I think it's pulling left due to the tyres. Sagar may have done a technically wrong alignment just to take care of the left pull.

[sagarpadaki]

Originally Posted by PearlJam

Thanks Nikhil! I went to Madhus yesterday and did the roadforce balancing. Really amazing. It rejected two of my tyres as bad, and suggested a best position for all of them. Anyway, I plan to replace them within the next few months, and the guy at the counter quoted a good price for XM2's.

Surprisingly, the 5 set of OEM tyres have only run 34000 Kms. I knew that the OEM suppied JK tyres were bad, but didn't expect they would be *so* bad! The guy at the counter said that life of the tyres was almost over (though tyre treads are still pretty good and deep). The was no real noticeable uneven wear on any of them. Is this a standard life of OEMs? Does the rubber quality affect the rating given by the roadforce balancer too?

One more thing - Even though I did a wheel alignment at Sagar (and got the perfect toe alignment report) as part of regular servicing, I re-did the wheel alignment at Madhus since I wanted to do both in one place. Madhus showed the toe as incorrect, and they adjusted it again. But surprisingly, the car started pulling to the left, and I realized that only the next day. I took it to Sagar auto again today, they re-did the alignment as per their machine, and now it's pulling fine. I'm not sure if there could be an issue with the alignment machine at Madhus?



No, I did not get it fixed. A little senior guy at Madhus (I don't know the name) said that I can ignore the red values since they are not really bug, provided I do the wheel rotation every 5000kms. For now, I'm not doing anything, and plan to fix the whole thing when I change the tyres in a few months.

Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008

I think it's pulling left due to the tyres. Sagar may have done a technically wrong alignment just to take care of the left pull.

But Nikhil, is'nt the whole point of the road force balancing is to ensure that the good and bad tyres are put in appropriate corners so that the pulling is eliminated? Thats what the machine also shows at the end. A straight arrow with position of the different numbered tyres!

Also PearlJam also mentioned he got a perfect toe alignment report from the MASS. So its kinda confusing.

PearlJam , are the specified range values for your car same in both the Madhu's alignment as well as HASS alignment report? Can you post a snapshot of both the reports here?

[PearlJam]

Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008

I think it's pulling left due to the tyres. Sagar may have done a technically wrong alignment just to take care of the left pull.

Sorry, I did not mean to imply that Madhus did it wrong. Let me just state the facts and sequence of events:

1. Gave car for servicing, ask them to do wheel alignment as part of the job, since it was pulling (a little) to left. I did not do wheel balancing, since I wanted to try out the roadforce machine at Madhus. Even after this, there is a very slight pull to the left, which he told me was because of the not-so-good tyres. Report attached:



2. After a few days, go to Madhus to do wheel balancing. Really impressed with the Roadforce technology. It suggested a particular order of tyres. After completing that, I thought that I'll do alignment again, since (a) wanted to check if Sagar has correct readings, and (b) because tyres were rotated, wanted to do both at the same place. Report attached:



Now on driving, there is a very prominent pull to left. Not only that, even holding the steering wheel at center would move to left.

3. Took it to Sagar again, and they re-did the alignment. Unfortunately, I don't have a report here - they did it for free (thinking that they did not do it properly during the service ).

Now, absolutely no pull. So I believe, the balancing has worked wonders to the overall result. Note: Sagar corrected wrong readings, then Madhus re-corrected the readings, and then Sagar recorrected it again! I'm not sure if results are different in (3) because balancing and rotation was done in (2).

Originally Posted by sagarpadaki

PearlJam , are the specified range values for your car same in both the Madhu's alignment as well as HASS alignment report? Can you post a snapshot of both the reports here?

To be frank, I don't understand the report in detail. Nor do I understand how reference values are different. Luckily, the problem got fixed now.

[antardaksh]

Hi Nikhil,

Car: Wagon R Lxi
Age: 5 years (November 2007)
Odo: 32000
Tyres: Stock MRF on Stock rims
Question: is it possible to upgrade to 165/60R13 on stock rims of Lxi?

I have Wagon R Lxi with stock tyres and rims. I wanted to know if I need to switch to alloys before I can upgrade to wider tyres since I am not sure about difference in rim size between Wagon r Lxi and Vxi.

Regards.

[SBR]

Got the Wheel Alignment & Balancing done today at Madhus. This was my first visit after the Hunter Road Force Machine has been installed at Madhus.

My ODO reading is at 67,902 KMS today.

Pretty satisfied with the service

[paragsachania]

Originally Posted by antardaksh

Hi Nikhil,

Car: Wagon R Lxi
Age: 5 years (November 2007)
Odo: 32000
Tyres: Stock MRF on Stock rims
Question: is it possible to upgrade to 165/60R13 on stock rims of Lxi?

I have Wagon R Lxi with stock tyres and rims. I wanted to know if I need to switch to alloys before I can upgrade to wider tyres since I am not sure about difference in rim size between Wagon r Lxi and Vxi.

Regards.

Since its 2007 Model and Lxi, I am sure the stock RIM size would be 4J.

It is too difficult to get alloys in 4J size these days (AURA used to manufacture one) and you may have to compromise settling for 4.5J rims which will more likely fit wider and result in the tires rubbing against the wheel arches on either sides.

The WagonR's design for that matter is not mod friendly when it comes to upgrading the tires or alloys since there is very less space near the wheel arches and hence, sticking to 155-65 is the best option.

When checking with alloys, please make sure you fit them on the car, have 2 people seated at the rear and take a test drive over a bumpy stretch to confirm that the tires are not rubbing against the wheel arches.