[SPEEDY_RACER]

Originally Posted by Jerrycan

Around 90 Bullets Between 1991 to 2003, 15 Gypsy's 410 & 413 all carb models, 8 CJ3b all petrol will be Auctioned during the 1st week of April 2013. My reliable contacts say the vehicles are in Fairly Decent condition.
If interested , please send your mail id through PM, I'll mail the contact details of the dealer and all other relevant details about pricing etc.,
Regards

Hi Jerrycan,

i would like to pick up one Bullet which is later than 2000 model bullet and surely one gypsy/CJ3b, can you share me the details in a PM or email id suresh2001.a@gmail.com

[Jerrycan]

Originally Posted by Rokztar

Hi Jerrycan,

Please forward the details to me as well.

My mail id is zz.ankit@gmail.com.

Not able to PM as yet.

Thanks in advance.

Sir,
There are so many dealers in Khazan Basti in Delhi, You'll surely find something interesting there. i'll try to send some contacts to your mail Id.
Best regards
Prabhu

[wanderernomad]

Badly bitten by the 4X4 bug, been hunting around for a suitable 4X4 vehicle. Have been browsing old vehicles including a few Gypsies but not finding the right mix and match of budget and the condition of the vehicle. Have come across the following 03 jeeps in my quest. Need help from gurus here in identifying the models here and advise in selecting one that would be most functional mod friendly and easy to maintain and rebuild from among these 03. There is another Gypsy but yet to locate the same and find out if its a 410W or not. Will post a picture later if I can find its whereabouts. The pictures are of the Jeep followed by some more shots before the next one. In case more pictures are required please let me know and will try to source them as well.

[wanderernomad]

This seems to be a newer model but not sure if its a 4x4 as underbody pictures could not be obtained as yet. Further the first model is a 4X4 though the 4x4 shifter could not be seen inside the cabin.

[anjan_c2007]

I saw the pictures of the three jeeps that you have posted.
The blue one with a Roplas (fibreglass) make top is the oldest among them- maybe a pre 1982 model. The wipers are on the top of the windscreen and it does not have ventilation vents behind its front mudguard (in black) as the other one in green has. These are the features that it came with. Its blue colour says that its a 1978 or 1979 model.
The blue and green shade of these two CJ 500 D 's are original.
Please check the mechanicals thoroughly. The body is also prone to cracks and welds and that must be checked.
Are these two in running condition?
Their engine is the rugged International 2350 cc / 50 bhp MDI. This engine works like a donkey and needs too little maintenance. It runs and stands abuse to the extreme.
Its minus points are that it is sluggish in today's traffic.The best maintained engine is too noisy and even two co-passengers seated on the front seat cannot talk properly due to the noise.It rattles and is too tiring for long drives.I guess spares are becoming a bit rare as these are perishing quickly.
The other jeep is a 540 DP (post 1986) and has the 2112 cc / 65 bhp Peugeot diesel. This engine is equally rugged but a bit more refined. The spares of this engine are still abundantly available.
Please check thoroughly as all the three have been abused. At least two look to be from government disposals.
Though many talk about the Gypsy,the Gypsy has its own plus points. I somehow did not like it much as its light and gets tossed while off-roading or even while negotiating potholes. The two front seat passengers are the most comfortable . Its rear suspension is too stiff and the rear seat passengers get tossed along with the UV.
Mahindras feel more planted and heavy, though very crude technologically. I am used to off-roading with Mahindra jeeps.
The Gypsy and the Mahindras if well kept are very reliable.

[wanderernomad]

All three of them are government disposals. The last blue one is the latest of the lot and I am also inclined towards it. However, the green one seems to have the old world charm. Rebuilding the 540 would be the easiest according to your post above. Yes I agree that Mahindras are more planted but its the niggles and the chances of it breaking down in the middle of no where is what scares me the most. Gypsies are more reliable in that way and can take long journeys more easily. What would be the ideal price to pay for these?

[sharc_biker]

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[Sudarshan]

My thoughts for the Jeep bug bitten people .

Types of sellers # Private # Auction / middlemen

1 Private Seller . best option

How ever & whatever the condition of the vehicle / papers

# Direct access to owner

# Ease for knowing vehicle history ( ask few questions & read his face / language )

# No Brokerage

# Less chances of getting ( delivered ) less than what you were shown .

# They are registered , verification of papers is easy

# according to condition test drive is possible

# chance of meeting passionate people who maintain their vehicles properly & give you good after sales support


2 Auctioneers / Brokers


2a Auctioned vehicles

# No offence to anyone , chances of getting bumped by 'hardcore traders ' who just dont give a xxx abt your passion , they are just after getting a good customer.

# Vehicles are mostly beaten , non functional -- so NO test drive

# No service history

# Most often few parts are Just missing , even if they were at the time of auction

2b Govt Auctioned Lot

# Paperwork is there , but you need some ' Co- Operation ' from the Babus

# Hard to break the traders racket in open auctions , Almost No chance of getting a vehicle

# Again -- Often beaten , abused , near scrap vehicles , Lucky if you could get a near running condition vehicle ( But those are for insiders = rampant corruption )

2c Army auctioned vehicles

# Condition is bit on Plus side then the govt. Auctioned ones

# No Service History , No test drives

# Parts do go missing after inspection ( Army Babus is a different category you haven't perhaps imagined )

# Getting 'Civil' registered is a problem

# Gone are the days of 60 K Jeep , these cost about 1.6 K Unrestored ( registered ) with dealers

# Try getting it by participating in Auction -- a road less traveled

2d ' The Brokers ' Lots of stories . There is virtually A N Y possibility of A N Y combination of the above .

# you pay 20 % more

# Check the paperwork thoroughly , If the dealer objects to that simply shove him OFF

# No chance of service history .

Disclaimer ; there are exceptions to all above .

These are my own opinions & experiences in short .

Sudarshan

[wanderernomad]

Sudarshan ji point well taken. I think I would fall in category 2b (rampant corruption). The green one is supposed to be full working condition and requires just a battery and a service for oil changes. However, the vehicle is somewhat old. I was also initially inclined for the blue 540 but its 4x4 shifter is removed along with the shaft and the drivers are not sure about its running capablities.
If I was to go for the green one how capable will it be for off roading and a small trailer tow, availablity of parts would be another factor.

[Sudarshan]

Originally Posted by wanderernomad

. The green one is supposed to be full working condition and requires just a battery and a service for oil changes. However, the vehicle is somewhat old. I was also initially inclined for the blue 540 but its 4x4 shifter is removed along with the shaft and the drivers are not sure about its running capablities.

The vehicles from govt auctions are at the end of the life cycle , you cant predict anything about them. What max one can tell , just by looking at them , is the Damage part .

If I was to go for the green one how capable will it be for off roading and a small trailer tow, availablity of parts would be another factor.

Its simple . IMO the thumb rule is , the short wheel base ones are the most capable wrt off roading . The long wheel base ones are less capable , but practical for some users . So a 540 is a better compromise .

All Jeeps tow trailers ( 1000 kg GVW ) without problems , but on roads . Taking a trailer off roads is a different ball game . It will depend on the degree of difficulty of the terrain .

In India getting parts for the M&M jeep is not at all difficult , again IMO

Sudarshan

[anjan_c2007]

Even if they are government auctioned you need not worry. Army disposal jeeps (the 550 DP) are totally redone and do very rugged jobs reliably.
My friend bought a 1989 540 DP from a Maharashtra Govt auction and did a thorough job on it repairing or changing every possible niggle prone spare.He ran the jeep for ten years without any complaints going for long runs. Only when he was fed up he sold it for a change.
There are numerous such examples of old jeeps running. Diagnosis of faults has to be done properly by a good mechanic.and rectified for our use.
I am proud to say that I never faced any problems with Mahindra diesel vehicles, other than vapour lock and stalling, due to our own fault of not checking the diesel level in the tank.
The petrol driven Mahindra/ Jeep and even their Willys (CJ 3B) had their niggles that gave me nightmares quite often.

[wanderernomad]

Originally Posted by Sudarshan

Its simple . IMO the thumb rule is , the short wheel base ones are the most capable wrt off roading . The long wheel base ones are less capable , but practical for some users . So a 540 is a better compromise .

Sudarshan

The green one is a LWB or a SWB? Between these would you prefer taking the 540 and doing it up completely or the green one which is supposedly in running condition?

[Sudarshan]

Originally Posted by wanderernomad

The green one is a LWB or a SWB?

The Green one is a LWB

Between these would you prefer taking the 540 and doing it up completely or the green one which is supposedly in running condition?

This only you could answer

I mean if you want to do really hard core offroading , get the shortest possible wheel base .

If you want to carry a motorcycle or you intend to sleep inside the Jeep ( yes happens with Jeepers , it becomes a necessity sometimes ) better get a LWB . I had picked up a LWB for similar reasons ( not that I was denied entrance in the house ) , but seriously , if you want to use it as a mini camper LWB is the choice .

And off-course the midway , between the 80" & the 105" there is a 96" MM 540 ( these are approx figures ) People are preferring it over the SWB , may be for the same reason , space .

About the ' running condition ' one ? Well you will need to do a thorough ground up restoration with these auction Jeeps anyways . No short cuts .

Sudarshan

* edit , None of these ( in the pics earlier ) are 80" WB jeeps. The shortest among them is the blue 540

[Sudarshan]

Originally Posted by anjan_c2007

Army disposal jeeps (the 550 DP) are totally redone and do very rugged jobs reliably.
.

My frank opinion . Trying to be as short as possible ( so , much to read between lines for the experienced )

Anyone has checked the 'reality' of the process of Army Disposal ? WRT following . But before that I have couple of Questions ,
# Why dont the Army / Govt repair the vehicle by themselves ( Army has a good facility of their own ) & then use it for next 10 yrs , as any civilian does without hassles after he ' restores ' it ??

# What makes the Govt /Army put the Vehicles in Auction ?

# What does the Classification of Army vehicles mean ? For example Class 1 , 2 -- 5

# Army auction ( & most Central Govt Auctions ) The process , Auction is online now , registered bidders only , lots are published on net .

One needs to inspect the vehicles , select & bid . Now the Fun starts here after the inspection there is no guarantee that a starter motor will be there till the end . One is not allowed to take pics ( Army ) , the deal is as is where is -- you cant complain.

But there are traders who deal in such , they buy lots , you can inspect & deal accordingly . But price is added by another 25 % .

# Army Jeep rates . There is a minimum of 12% tax on the bidding price ,plus you need to pay to the army babus to take possession of the vehicle . The process is long for a law abiding citizen as if you are favored a gold mine for peanuts .

So what are the current rates ( Unregistered , On road ) for the Army Jeeps ? It depends on the class of the vehicle ? My take is 140 K , some one please prove me wrong , I wish it badly .

# The Army Jeep , needs a fresh 'civil' registration to run on roads . With this 140 K Jeep you need to go to the R T O . So here the Fun starts again . Some times the BS standards of the vehicle do not match with the registration criteria . Again the whole process is long for the Law abiding citizen .

So there are dealers for that too . You can avoid bidding & registering by yourself & get it done via a dealer , but yes please check the price .

# After getting a Jeep ( Army ) at your door step ( unrestored ) , for that you have paid some 1.7 -- again some one please prove me wrong .

What is the guess of costs , to get it as worthy as you wish ?? my take is 150 K

So finally you have a dream vehicle for some 3 lakhs minimum .

I am not counting the restoration hassles , the time you spend behind running after your mechanic , Thats a Jeep thing

Frustrating facts aren't they ?? But chances are I will be jumping in it soon -- as my 89 model Jeep is nearing its end of its life cycle , So Cheers

Sudarshan

[Jerrycan]

Originally Posted by wanderernomad

Badly bitten by the 4X4 bug, been hunting around for a suitable 4X4 vehicle. Have been browsing old vehicles including a few Gypsies but not finding the right mix and match of budget and the condition of the vehicle. Have come across the following 03 jeeps in my quest. Need help from gurus here in identifying the models here and advise in selecting one that would be most functional mod friendly and easy to maintain and rebuild from among these 03. There is another Gypsy but yet to locate the same and find out if its a 410W or not. Will post a picture later if I can find its whereabouts. The pictures are of the Jeep followed by some more shots before the next one. In case more pictures are required please let me know and will try to source them as well.

Sir,
The First Jeep with the Roplas body, seems ideal for ground up restoration. It seems like an International Harvester B 275 Engine, a 3 speed gear box. As Mr. Anjan has rightly pointed the engine works like a Donkey and little or no maintenance is required.
The Blue 540 seems to be a 2WD. Go for the first one.

Originally Posted by Sudarshan

My frank opinion . Trying to be as short as possible ( so , much to read between lines for the experienced )

Anyone has checked the 'reality' of the process of Army Disposal ? WRT following . But before that I have couple of Questions ,
# Why dont the Army / Govt repair the vehicle by themselves ( Army has a good facility of their own ) & then use it for next 10 yrs , as any civilian does without hassles after he ' restores ' it ??

The army / Govt disposes the vehicles that are beyond economical repair.

# What does the Classification of Army vehicles mean ? For example Class 1 , 2 -- 5
Sudarshan

The Class -I indicate vehicles that have covered less than 20,000 or so Kms, Class-II indicates mileage of 50,000 Kms and so on.
Class V vehicles are those that are deemed not reliable, and are to be disposed. These vehicles can be registered and used by the Civilians.
Class-VI are the Accident-ed mine blasted etc., vehicles that cannot be registered. These vehicles have to be scrapped and cannot be registered by the civilians.
A Class-I vehicle with an engine seize can become Class-V within the first year of putting it into use
Regards
Prabhu