[Abbas]

Originally Posted by Bump-Stop

Hi Arsi,

What you're referring to as a tow hook is actually just a securing hook in my humble opinion. Used to keep the vehicle in place (static load) when it is being transferred by truck etc.
It is not designed to take the dyanamic loads during towing. Sadly, Maruti haven't installed rated tow points for the gypsy.

Beg to differ. I have had a Gypsy king 1.3 MPFI for 4 years and have used it in multiple Rallies and serious off road excursions. The Stock Hook is the strongest of all. Recovered a lot of vehicles of it and it has managed to stay intact.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by Aroy

There can be two reasons that I can think of

1. Carbon build up in the head.

2. Carbon build up in the throttle body.

The above will perk up the engine quite a bit. If there is till problem with low end torque, then the engine will need rebuilding.

Originally Posted by cool_dube

Good low-end torque is not Gypsy's forte, thanks to the high revving petrol engine.

Thank you Gentlemen.

@Aroy: I do drive it at goodly speeds on weekends here and there for longish stretches. And as I said earlier this is only a recently restored beast whose throttle body and jets etc are squeaky clean. I use only Shell V Power Petrol and I do also regularly add the injector cleaner and octane booster liquids from STP etc while filling petrol. I recently changed the ignition coil and spark plugs too.

@cool_dube: I take your point completely. For chuggability I have my Yeti. In case I wish to torque - chug my Gypsy it looks like the only option is to use a lower gear and rev a bit when possible. In the evil traffic of the cities I think I will simply sit in the vehicle put the gear into neutral and switch off and wait. Forget completely about crawling about etc.

But if this is indeed the scenario that I have to live with, then how do those off road rock crawler Gypsys manage such low speeds while crawling about the rocky terrain and still manage to avoid stalling?

Is there something to do with engine compression?
Or is there something I am missing here is how to increase the Torque in a proper scientific and vehicle friendly manner?

Just for your info I have successfully been all over the place in my earlier 970cc Gypsys up the hills and down the dales on muddy tracks and beaches etc and they chugged along quite well, albeit with judicious use of clutch gear and accelerator. And Yes the Gypsy was never as torque chuggable as our old MM540/550 vehicles - which is one of the reasons my Dad always preferred the Mahindras.

But this King is more free revving and yes it is high revving too as compared to those older models.

I also want to know when you view the Republic Day and Independence Day Parades or similar, those Gypsys which carry these dignitaries always are able to crawl at very low speeds while the said dignitaries are standing in them and 'taking the salute' and at those times those Gypsys never 'jerk' or stall or whatever because if they do, and if the said dignitaries were to topple over while standing, I am sure there will be hell to pay!

So how do they do it? Other than by using the clutch and accelerator judiciously, that is.

Any input will be deeply appreciated.

[Aroy]

I think that the King with 1.3L engine is a high revving engine similar to the older Esteem's engine. In that case it is best to drive in a lower gear at higher RPM (compared to the older 1L engine). In reality a high revving engine gives better torque and FE at higher RPM, where as it will struggle below 2000 RPM and return abysmal FE.

To get lower crawling speed apart from tuning the engine for lower RPM torque, people generally change the differential ratios, but that reduces the top speed also, so id justified if you are off roading most of the time.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by Aroy

I think that the King with 1.3L engine is a high revving engine similar to the older Esteem's engine. In that case it is best to drive in a lower gear at higher RPM (compared to the older 1L engine).

generally change the differential ratios, but that reduces the top speed also, so id justified if you are off roading most of the time.

Thank you very much.

Its totally weird but Im just out from Ranjiths RAC Garage where the Chief Mech Senthil and I drove the Gypsy up and down some of the small lanes of Koramangala.

On the way from home to the garage,which is about 3-4km, while driving in third and again in second, at very low revs, we did experience some little jerkiness.

On reaching the Garage, we drove it in 2nd,3rd and 4th gears individually, at very low revs, almost at stalling speeds, just leveraging its own momentum and torque, with the foot completely off the accelerator pedal and just allowed the Gypsy to quietly chug up and down some low degree gradients, both uphill and downhill and holy moly the Gypsy just chugged up and down without as much as a murmur!
No jerkiness.
No nothing.

Perhaps it decided by itself that since I was taking it to the Vet this morning, it would show no signs of ill health in any manner when actually in front of the car doctor!

I dont know.
Like I said, it is totally weird.
Maybe there's a wicked little gremlin in the Gypsy that just wants to irritate me once in a way.

Im also thinking that once the engine warms up a bit it settles down nicely.

But let me see. Let me keep testing just to be sure.

[iMASKARAN]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

I am reliably informed that the Koyo set up is good. It is imported from Singapore or Indonesia or Thailand and works well in the Gypsy. Apparently it costs about 35-40K including fitting.

Personally Im keeping my Gypsy stock. Not converting it to Power Steering. Largely because I want the authentic feel it gives without PS though it is quite an arm workout if one tries to turn the wheel when stationary or at low speeds.

Mr Balan, many thanks for your revert. Yes its quite a bicep and forearm exercise trying to move the stationary gypsy...I walked up to a Delhi Police PCR the other day and asked the constable on the Drivers seat...on how's the feel of the Gyspy ( I have had my own feel)...the man replied :"Arre Sir, pucho maat, 8 Ghante baad pura body dukhta hai!!!

[headers]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Maybe there's a wicked little gremlin in the Gypsy that just wants to irritate me once in a way.

LOL..You will master the art of jerkfree driving soon.. I would check my carb / mpfi end, spark plugs, A cable and tyre pressure!!

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by headers

LOL..You will master the art of jerkfree driving soon.. I would check my carb / mpfi end, spark plugs, A cable and tyre pressure!!

Originally Posted by iMASKARAN

Mr Balan, many thanks for your revert. :"Arre Sir, pucho maat, 8 Ghante baad pura body dukhta hai!!!

@headers: like I said I have changed the sparkers and coils and the MpFI engine and jets etc are all thoroughly clean.
And today it didnt jerk after I had warmed it up a bit. In the old days the carb Gypsy used to have two air intake settings by way of a slider switch on the air filter cover. More air for high altitude and cold climate and less for plains driving. The new ones dont have that.

@imaskaran: Undoubtedly a good work out. I usually sleep much better if I ve been driving my Gypsy because Im just more tired overall.

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Thank you very much.

Its totally weird but Im just out from Ranjiths RAC Garage where the Chief Mech Senthil and I drove the Gypsy up and down some of the small lanes of Koramangala.

On the way from home to the garage,which is about 3-4km, while driving in third and again in second, at very low revs, we did experience some little jerkiness.

On reaching the Garage, we drove it in 2nd,3rd and 4th gears individually, at very low revs, almost at stalling speeds, just leveraging its own momentum and torque, with the foot completely off the accelerator pedal and just allowed the Gypsy to quietly chug up and down some low degree gradients, both uphill and downhill and holy moly the Gypsy just chugged up and down without as much as a murmur!
No jerkiness.
No nothing.

Perhaps it decided by itself that since I was taking it to the Vet this morning, it would show no signs of ill health in any manner when actually in front of the car doctor!

I dont know.
Like I said, it is totally weird.
Maybe there's a wicked little gremlin in the Gypsy that just wants to irritate me once in a way.

Im also thinking that once the engine warms up a bit it settles down nicely.

But let me see. Let me keep testing just to be sure.

Check the clutch and the engine mountings. The same thing happens in my Alto K10 - driving at low speeds without depressing the clutch works fine, the moment I engage the clutch below 200RPM the car starts jerking.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by Aroy

Check the clutch and the engine mountings. The same thing happens in my Alto K10 - driving at low speeds without depressing the clutch works fine, the moment I engage the clutch below 200RPM the car starts jerking.

No way boss. I changed the entire clutch and all its fixings 3 -4 months ago and am not a clutch heavy driver. Engine mountings and all those rubbery bits and pieces were changed as soon as I got this Gypsy.
Upon driving it at speeds to the golf course in the early morning today there was no jerky jerky.
Coming back just now, in traffic and at lower revs I simply bashed it into lower gear each time and it held up nicely.
Only once did it jerk and that was because I was lazily taking a turn in 3rd.
But on cracking it down to 2nd it picked up to normal.
Plus just now I filled a full tank of Shell V Power and Im sure that will further clean any muck that may exist in the injectors and things.


I absolutely just am completely Gypsy-Mad.
I dont know what comes over me but I am just nuts about this lovely vehicle.

[keroo1099]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

@headers: like I said I have changed the sparkers and coils and the MpFI engine and jets etc are all thoroughly clean.

Have you changed the lead wires between the coil packs and plug? I found a similar situation on my earlier MG410 with a regular distributor and bottle coil and it turned out to be faulty HT leads.

If you haven't, then just try cleaning the contacts firstfirst before you attempt a change. Sounds like an electrical issue to me.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by keroo1099

Have you changed the lead wires between the coil packs and plug? I found a similar situation on my earlier MG410 with a regular distributor and bottle coil and it turned out to be faulty HT leads.



If you haven't, then just try cleaning the contacts firstfirst before you attempt a change. Sounds like an electrical issue to me.

Thank you. I do believe we changed those leads as
well because it was all bought as a set and then installed.
But I will check the electricals for sure.
Thanks for the tip.

Incidentally I drove it out again this afternoon for lunch with some friends and just now while returning home it did jerk once or twice at low revs.

I will check it.
It is an intermittent problem.
Needs a thorough looking into....

[AMG Power]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

It is an intermittent problem.

Change the fuel filters and also have a look st the fuel pump - probably time to replace that too. I am assuming you have replaced the air filter as that would be amongst the early culprits in such a situation.

Small jerks are usually very difficult to isolate and can lead to unnecessary dismantling of components in the name of diagnosis which actually is more harmful to the car. It is better to wait till the jerk is more prominent when you can isolate it easily.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by AMG Power

Change the fuel filters and also have a look st the fuel pump - probably time to replace that too. I am assuming you have replaced the air filter as that would be amongst the early culprits in such a situation.



Small jerks are usually very difficult to isolate and can lead to unnecessary dismantling of components in the name of diagnosis which actually is more harmful to the car. It is better to wait till the jerk is more prominent when you can isolate it easily.

Fuel filters I know were changed.
Fuel pump.
Hmm.
I will check.
But wont this be an issue at higher speeds as well? Because I dont face trouble at higher speeds.

[AMG Power]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

But wont this be an issue at higher speeds as well? .

Not necessarily. It could lead to trouble at higher speeds too, but this would also be a symptom of its failure.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by AMG Power

Not necessarily. It could lead to trouble at higher speeds too, but this would also be a symptom of its failure.

I will most certainly check/ change the Fuel
Pump if required.
I shall go to the garage again tomorrow if they are (hopefully) open.
Good pointer Sir.
Thanks a lot!