[suku_patel_22]

How does the Compass Trailhawk compare to an Endeavour?

[cool_dube]

Originally Posted by suku_patel_22

How does the Compass Trailhawk compare to an Endeavour?

You are comparing an apple to an orange here! Endeavour is a ladder-on-frame full-size (7 seater) SUV with a separate low-range transfer case and lockable differential, with premium interiors and old school looks. Trailhawk is a new gen, mid-size 5-seater monocoque SUV with decent off-road capabilities. The Endeavour scores over the Trailhawk in all areas except the latter being more suited to off-road trails, owing to it's compact dimensions.

[rajamuneeb]

Thanks Samurai for such a great review. I just have a novice question. How big is the difference between the AWD system of trail hawk as compared to the normal Jeep Compass limited in terms of off-road conditions. Also would like to know how is the 9ZF AT gearbox in terms of drivability and what about it’s long term durability. Thanks

[phamilyman]

Originally Posted by Samurai

And here is the bad news. If you are a hobbyist offroader like me, you will find the Trailhawk extremely boring to drive in offroad conditions. For those of us who learnt offroading in mechanical offroaders, every obstacle is a puzzle to solve. We look at the obstacle, plan our approach, and then execute it. Success feels so good, and failure means retry with a new plan. That is what the offroading hobby is all about. But when you are driving a Trailhawk, you become a mere spectator while the Trailhawk does all the offroad puzzle solving. It feels like you are merely commuting on an offroad trail, rather than taking part in an automobile sport.

This means you can go to difficult-to-reach places in comfort without losing any time. That is the USP of the Trailhawk.

You glossed over the truly great news for a well to do long distance tourer who can afford this car. Its an excellent use case for a lot of non-enthusiasts.



This is THE perfect family "go anywhere" car for people who just want a vehicle that never pauses in tough conditions - who need 4x4 not as a hobby and a source of joy, but a trump card that will prevent them from getting stuck in bad terrain - whether that is on a Ladakh drive, or a Coorg coffee estate visit in the rains.


Alas my family no longer has the patience for road expeditions else this would've made infinitely more sense than the Yaris I just purchased!

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by Guna

What I meant is, improving the regular differentials on mainstream cars which mimic the LSD behavior. LSD must be expensive and that is probably the reason not many cars (even SUVs) don't have it.


.

Yes improving regular diffs make them LSD which is limited slip differential

You can use clutch, fluid etc. or you can use brakes. Eventually it’s friction

Everybody has brakes and abs and with electronics getting cheap companies are going that route

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by phamilyman

You glossed over the truly great news for a well to do long distance tourer who can afford this car. Its an excellent use case for a lot of non-enthusiasts.

This is THE perfect family "go anywhere" car for people who just want a vehicle that never pauses in tough conditions - who need 4x4 not as a hobby and a source of joy, but a trump card that will prevent them from getting stuck in bad terrain - whether that is on a Ladakh drive, or a Coorg coffee estate visit in the rains.

Well, I didn't exactly gloss over. It is not a binary equation.

Arka had a great saying about it, I don't recall the exact sentence. Let me paraphrase... Unlike 2WD, a 4WD lets you go lot deeper into the trail before getting you stranded. So Trailhawk might enable non-enthusiasts go into otherwise impossible trails, but it will also make them terribly overconfident.

I saw an example of that during the 2nd day of the drive. You can see that some of the photos from a dried-up lake bed. One side of the lake had a hill that looked no different than the hills we climbed and descended and the previous day. Team-BHP team was sharing the car with another media group. The journalist from the other media had attended the beginner course at Mahindra Offroad Academy, so he had the basic training. Therefore he was doing all the driving in the lake bed, while we were shooting. After a while, he noticed the hill and wanted to shoot videos of climbing that hill and coming down. Since I was the only experienced offroader there, I could cast a critical eye on the hill and could quickly assess what all could go wrong with that. Unlike the previous day, we had no support vehicle, and absolutely no recovery gear. I could tell that it is quite doable in the Trailhawk, but we will be sitting duck if it goes wrong, even damage the vehicle. We were half Km away from the nearest road and not visible from the road. Therefore, I vetoed it and rest gave up knowing I spoke from experience.

Trailhawk will not prevent you from getting stuck. It just reduces the possibility, provided you know how to drive in offroad trails. Even the most inexperienced person didn't get stuck in this media event, because there were spotters and instructors at every special stage telling us exactly what to do and where to place the tyres. We had support vehicles with plenty of recovery gear. That ain't the case when you just head into an offroad trail after a heavy rain. I have gotten stuck numerous times with my Grand Vitara (crawl ratio 33.6) when I got overconfident or misread a trail.

[Guna]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Yes improving regular diffs make them LSD which is limited slip differential

You can use clutch, fluid etc. or you can use brakes. Eventually it’s friction

Everybody has brakes and abs and with electronics getting cheap companies are going that route

True, I think Skoda is doing it (with Octavia, Superb...). I don't know what stops others from offering this feature.
PS: Sorry for staying off topic!

[Tejas@perioimpl]

Originally Posted by Samurai

The final long decline down a steep slope was very interesting. The following photo is quite misleading since it was shot from the top of the hill. It was a very steep hill, even walking down on foot would be quite difficult. Here we were asked to slide down using the brakes, keeping within the ruts to keep us straight:

Any reason they asked you to lock up the brakes while going down and not use HDC?

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl

Any reason they asked you to lock up the brakes while going down and not use HDC?

Naah, it was just "Trust us, we know what we are doing" stuff. I brought up wheel-lockup and loss steering control, that I noticed on the earlier Jeeps going down. The spotter told me that's why we must stick to the ruts made by the earlier Jeeps. I left it at that.

[Sutripta]

Originally Posted by 1100D

While I agree to everything you have written. Just a little note, that in case of the Trailhawk, the higher crawl ratio over the "Limited 4x4" is achieved through a higher axle ratio:-



So the crawl ratio difference holds in reverse too (but only by the percentage difference of the axle ratio's of the two variants - a meagre 16%)

True. With a difference.
The TC can slip without detriment for far longer than one can slip a clutch. And provide torque multiplication to boot. Together, it means lower ratio than on paper.

Does the Trailhawk have a transmission oil cooler?

One other thing - locking TCs. I think in an offroad vehicle, we should be aware of when a TC locks, and unlocks. This unlocking information is extremely elusive to find. Even for normal vehicles.

Regards
Sutripta

[Vid6639]

I had a fairly decent TD of the trailhawk when it came to office. No off roading but around Electronics city on poor roads as well as normal roads that I drive daily on my Ecosport.

The performance of the Trailhawk is decent but at no point did it feel like a 170BHP motor under the hood. Maybe 140 or so.

The ZF9 box is good but not DSG excellent and only has one mode of driving aka relaxed. It does not like to be hurried and ignores aggressive throttle inputs altogether. Basically it hardly bothers with a kickdown in traffic and just builds speed gradually. My guess is this will be better at slightly higher speeds cause in town 2nd and 3rd is all it has and those are well spaced out. It looked like it uses 3 a lot and doesn't like to go down to second to close gaps since 2nd is actually first in normal mode and it starts off in 2nd as well.

Since there is no paddles or sports mode as well, you are pretty much left with the normal driving mode and if you are in the mood for some aggressive driving, the Trailhawk will not oblige.

I was not overly disappointed with this but at 35L on road it's just plain too expensive for what it offers. The compass overall needs a proper price check. It cannot be a 35L compact SUV. The Trailhawk needs to be below 30 and the other variants around 25L. 29L for the 4x4 manual is ridiculous as well.

What was really good was the build quality and suspension. It absorbed everything I tried with a muted thud when I missed a speed breaker and it felt like the road was relaid vs when I drive my Ecosport daily over it. I know this is unfair comparo but thats the upgrade I was looking at. The steering was spot on and I felt at ease with the size as well considering it's not a whole lot bigger than my Ford.

The all black interiors are nicer than the regular one as well. especially the dark metallic finish around the AC vents and infotainment screen. The piano black in lower variants doesn't look as good.

It would have been a perfect upgrade for my Ecosport and I would have overlooked the gearbox shortcomings for 30L but not at 35L. Especially since the Tiguan with discounts is now close to the Trailhawk pricing.

The Tiguan and the Kodiaq are better value. Even though on paper specs are 20BHP down vs the Trailhawk, both Kodiaq and Tiguan felt more eager, responsive and more fun to drive thanks to better DSG gearbox.

The Compass Trailhawk has very very niche appeal as it stands. Honestly for its size, features and overall feel, it should be under 30L for Trailhawk and other variants should be below 25L on road in Bangalore. Even lower elsewhere.

[BlackPearl]

Saw this a bit late, excellent report @Samurai. Thoroughly enjoyed reading it.

[Guna]

Originally Posted by Sutripta

The TC can slip without detriment for far longer than one can slip a clutch. And provide torque multiplication to boot. Together, it means lower ratio than on paper.

This is true, TC can even build significant torque at almost zero speeds and this helps to climb huge speed road bumps or getting out of a crater at crawling speed in the city as well.
I found that there is another advantage to having a true 'low range'. Slotting to low range can work almost like having a (super)sports mode. I have done this couple of times in my Forester when I was a real hurry to zip past the slow moving traffic (which is otherwise a pain in a car like Forester, which is heavy and has somewhat poor low end torque).
Of course you can't do this on a tarmac if the 'low range' is going to lock the differentials and there is no LSD.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

New ad highlighting the features of the Trailhawk -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6UHMWZ29Sk

[cool_dube]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

New ad highlighting the features of the Trailhawk

Very tempting indeed, thanks for sharing!

To repeat myself, the Traihawk is a good product, let down by impractical pricing.