[Parm]

MM pick up truck range of vehicles sell more in commercial segment and hardly any thing to talk about in "Lifestyle" category designate Getaway!

So that proves a point that to target the "Lifestyle" segment, OEMs (TATA & MM) needs to provide a value for money product.

It's similar to people buying so called SUVs and they hardly go Offroad in them.

Similarly, how many of those buying Double Cab "Lifestyle" pick up would be using the loading bay to haul things or have it parked in their drive way? It will be a weekend vehicle for most buyers.

Would urban families would like to see themselves driven around in a Pick up!? Rural families have no issues with that.

So, in my opinion, all Bawa Ji needs to do it is to improve upon the existing Xenon and make it affordable to buy and own it and add some features.

The biggest target will be the Rural segment, that's where the Bolero is a big hit. The maximum generation of sales comes from the villages.

My brother in law had no choice but to buy a Bolero for his family & farm needs, as the "soft top" Thar was not secure enough and not comfortable enough for his dual needs of family and farm.

I asked him about the Getaway/Camper/Xenon as the alternate to Bolero/Thar for his needs, and he has to say the following:

1. Getaway : longer rear hang and too big.
2. Camper : commercial segment vehicle. "Yellow registration"
3. Xenon : not comfortable enough for the family needs.

Toyota Hilux, I would say is the best example of a VFM/Durable/Reliable pick up if one needs an inspiration from.

[humyum]

Just to give my point of view about this. No offence BD sir, but this is just what I think and I might be 100% wrong, but this is just my education talking from all the research I have done in this field.

Team-bhp is a good platform for enthusiasts about cars, engines, maintenance, travelogues etc etc, but team-bhp is hardly a place where you will get to know what a common man wants for the simple reason, we are car lovers here, who are in very small numbers compared to the people who buy a car for A to B travel. While we will want a lot from a car than a common man and our wants will be different from what a normal guy wants from a car. What we enthusiasts may want is many a times not even practical and does not even make business sense. Hence the idea about building a car and how the product could be conceived would simply be found out by travelling to parts of India, city and rural areas alike, talking to people in each of these parts, putting your engineering and product planning skill together and then coming out with product plan, discussing with the younger chaps, amalgamating all of that together with the business chaps in the company as to what makes business sense and then a product would be born.

For a common man, approach and departure angles, power to weight ratio, 4 wheel drive, crawl speed are all irrelevant and terms which make no sense.

There is no market for such a car in India for the simple reason, TATA won't give one for 7 lakhs on road (for anyone to even consider it) and a common man will never buy something which seats 4 (in a dual cab), where in even the rear passengers sit like they have been given a punishment. The Indian market is too class conscious to have something like a Xenon ever a go at that price. A common argument 'hey, I can buy a Verna, I can buy a Duster, I can buy a NORMAL comfortable car for that price, why would I want something which a doodh wala drives'? And yes, the rural folks are class conscious too now a days.

The Bolero is a hit in rural India because, its a normal SUV which seats 7 and has no pre determined notions about 'Who uses it' ? I would buy a Bolero, but never touch a Xenon in any shape and form because my parents would never agree for one. Its just not a practical everyday car and a 10-12 lakh car can hardly be a weekend car for most of us.

Also the numbers at which the Xenon is selling now, proves my point too. I don't think any amount of tinkering with the Xenon can change the sales numbers at all. Same goes for the Aria. In typical MBA terms on the BCG matrix, I would call it a 'Dog' which needs a closure.

Yes, outside of India, in countries like Australia, UK, US, African countries there is a market for such things, but in India, emotions run the country, always have and always will.

[lurker]

It is quite simply difficult to manage a Xenon in a typical Indian city. Let's leave out a few cities with wide open spaces and wide roads. As soon as you enter a dual-carriageway type of situation with raised pavements, a Xenon becomes tiresome in tight traffic. how do you manoeuvre this thing like a Thar.

this is where a Thar/Gurkha footprint and dimensions become eminently desirable. The Gurkha would have been one classy competitor provided the Force Motors guys had put some time and effort into it, and into refining the product because dimensions wise that is the best possible compromise on 4X4 and city manoeuvrability (not the Gurkha in present form, but something very possible with it's dimensions). Now the Sumo comes closest to this ideal. But it's got to be a tad bit narrower and rear chopped off to make it more compact, and that is some work. You don't want a 62 kw engine with something that rivals the footprint of a fortuner. Thar dimensions and Gurkha dimensions are what fits such a beast.

But I think DBji's original question was how to manipulate around Xenon chasis. To be frank I do not see how to manoeuvre that wheelbase around tight turns as found on trails, doesn't seem manoeuvrable enough but can be a cruiser with better offroading than the current version though.

[Vikram Patel]

Originally Posted by humyum

There is no market for such a car in India for the simple reason, TATA won't give one for 7 lakhs on road (for anyone to even consider it) and a common man will never buy something which seats 4 (in a dual cab)

I think I'll disagree with you here. There is a market if it is catered to. Like I said 2 people have already bought the said vehicle after seeing mine. And no less than 8 people have stopped me on the road to ask me about the vehicle while 3 of them have actually decided to order the car (I gave them my phone number for further details). Maybe I am in such a place where lifestyle vehicles are more popular but it's not that big a deal having such a car. Actually people eye it with appreciation. There is a huge growing influence of the west and pick ups are a part of it. So if catered properly, I think this vehicle can create quite a storm(e).

Originally Posted by lurker

It is quite simply difficult to manage a Xenon in a typical Indian city. Let's leave out a few cities with wide open spaces and wide roads. As soon as you enter a dual-carriageway type of situation with raised pavements, a Xenon becomes tiresome in tight traffic. how do you manoeuvre this thing like a Thar.

I don't think the Xenon is that difficult to manoeuvre. I have driven it in various different situations and it is not any trouble. People actually tend to move out of the way just because the car scares them. But it does handle like any other SUV so apart from the very tiny lanes from the british raj era slum areas, the SUV can pretty much go everywhere. And especially since it's an offroader, you don't feel bad taking it over broken roads or undulated areas.

[humyum]

Originally Posted by Vikram Patel

I think I'll disagree with you here. There is a market if it is catered to. Like I said 2 people have already bought the said vehicle after seeing mine. And no less than 8 people have stopped me on the road to ask me about the vehicle while 3 of them have actually decided to order the car (I gave them my phone number for further details). Maybe I am in such a place where lifestyle vehicles are more popular but it's not that big a deal having such a car. Actually people eye it with appreciation. There is a huge growing influence of the west and pick ups are a part of it. So if catered properly, I think this vehicle can create quite a storm(e).

Well, but these numbers are not enough to 'make' a product or invest on a product is all my point is. Xenon is no Ferrari that 15 sales a month all over India can be called a market. I have traveled lengths and breadths of India and hardly ever seen a Xenon, neither rural nor city. The last I saw one was a black one on the Junagadh - Limdi highway 1 month back. Of course, this is no bench mark, but a rough idea of how popular the vehicle is, the sales figures too point in a similar direction.

Some months, it does not even sell a single unit, neither are the dealers promoting it, neither do most people know that vehicles like these exit. Does that not say something ?

Appreciation is not a sign of a 'next sell'. Its a wonderful car no doubt, but not one which Indian's flock to buy.

Anyway, I am just putting my point of view.

[Vikram Patel]

Originally Posted by humyum

Well, but these numbers are not enough to 'make' a product or invest on a product is all my point is. Xenon is no Ferrari that 15 sales a month all over India can be called a market. I have traveled lengths and breadths of India and hardly ever seen a Xenon, neither rural nor city. The last I saw one was a black one on the Junagadh - Limdi highway 1 month back. Of course, this is no bench mark, but a rough idea of how popular the vehicle is, the sales figures too point in a similar direction.

Some months, it does not even sell a single unit, neither are the dealers promoting it, neither do most people know that vehicles like these exit. Does that not say something ?
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.
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I completely agree with you there. I know that the Xenon doesn't sell in the Indian market because there is no need for it. My point is that if TATA uses intelligent marketing they can create a market for this product. It won't resonate universally but will cater to a huge part of the lifestyle segment.What I'm trying to say is that it has a potential to be sold in India if it is sold properly. Sorry if I wasn't able to express this sentiment properly.

[al pacino]

IMHO if the target buyers are enthusiasts and general public ( the ones who love the Thar but don't buy citing practical reasons like no hard top , comfortable rear seats ) then I don't think the current xenon will work .
Rather like others have suggested a 4x2 and 4x4 version of the Sumo redesigned with defender kind of styling which has a powerful presence will work the best . I don't think whatever modifications you do on a xenon it will be bought by urban people in cities like Mumbai ,Banglore . no offense but many people have a perception that xenon is a goods carrier .

[Parm]

Guys, this thread is a clever diversion by Bawa Ji from 4WD vehicle he is working on.

He, very intelligently used the Xenon as the diversion.

[YaeJay]

Originally Posted by Parm

When Santa Claus himself asks about what gift we want, that means it will be delivered!

Dear Beloved Bawa Ji, I drive a 2010 Toyota Hilux double cab 2.7 ltr petrol engine with 158 Bhp. I have covered 250,000kms in 4 years.

It is simply "Indestructible", it goes where ever I want it to go and where ever I want to take...it just goes.

No wonder it is used widely in almost all conflicts around the world and even military forces use it too.

I would like to request that if you can deliver a Xenon with 50% of Hilux's capabilities and reliability at 10-12 lakhs, it will do wonders.

keep Hilux as benchmark while developing Xenon. Below is a photo of my Hilux.

That please. Maybe its too much to ask, but still since we know you can do wonders and you ask, That would do fine, Sir
@Parm This santa, drives 4x4, loves wildlife. This santa, delivers.

[Parm]

Originally Posted by YaeJay

That please. Maybe its too much to ask, but still since we know you can do wonders and you ask, That would do fine, Sir

Yes, I also got excited when I saw Bawa Ji asking for the wish list. But now, it's a different story altogether.

[directinjection]

What's the status of Sumo Extreme?

[YaeJay]

Sumo is probably undergoing some extreme makeup.

[Patriot_Vishwas]

*Looks:The 'truck' must be butch lookin'.
*Mechanicals:Should be sorted.
*Interiors:Should have decent quality(Materials used and workmanship).
*Automatic gearbox(I'd really love a steering column mounted shifter)
*Great rustproofing on the bed.
*Single cab
*Should sit high, off the ground.
*I'm starting to like wing mirrors that sit on huge rectangular tubes, so if I could get that as an accessory, I'd love it.

More accessories like 'only for me' bull bars, roof mounted lights?, fake snorkels, hood scoops, all sortsa options for the bed etc. are welcome.
*No chrome(and minimum plastic), please.
*No Hero Honda sticker job.
*Very long service intervals.


OR

I reeeeally wouldn't mind buying one of these.

[maddy42]

Originally Posted by humyum

Well, but these numbers are not enough to 'make' a product or invest on a product is all my point is. Xenon is no Ferrari that 15 sales a month all over India can be called a market. I have traveled lengths and breadths of India and hardly ever seen a Xenon, neither rural nor city.

Some months, it does not even sell a single unit, neither are the dealers promoting it, neither do most people know that vehicles like these exit. Does that not say something ?

Anyway, I am just putting my point of view.

Humyum: Problem is with getting the message across by Tata.

In your travel you must have seen many numbers of the Pik up by mahindra in all the variants. (bolero, Maxx, some of the scorpio pick up). There are some folks who do need a dual carriage or single carriage with hauling but TATA doesnt get the message across to them.

I am from actual rural country but no one knows this vehicle exists. Plus the mahindra dealer is like 10 kms away.

The company themself do not have a idea of where you can and cannot register this vehicle and how you can and cannot register it. Thanks for some of the owners who took up the fight people on this forum have an idea of this car.

There are two markets which tata can try cater to: One is the hauling segment who needs a no frill gaadi and the other is the urban yuppie who takes the car on a mud road and call it offroading. Hardcore offroader comes between these two segments.

Lots of expectations. hope this bubble doesnt burst.

Maddy

[bikertillidie]

The Duster Oroch seems to possess some interesting styling elements even though it seems to have gone a bit overboard ..

Picture courtesy - BS Motoring.

http://www.bsmotoring.com/storypage.php?autono=9850