[KrishD]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Yes. I have. Its not very pleasant. Same old common rail problems. Not enough low end torque.
And then reliability is an issue with the 2.2 Safari. Storme may be better(appears better when we see the current ownership reviews).

Thanks tsk!
I guess the compromise between a comfortable car for everyday use and an ideal one for these mountain situations is not an easy one to achieve. However, given our budgets and our lives, neither is it practical to own two cars nor is it a great option to buy something which breaks your bones and gives you a stiff shoulder in everyday use.
Given that the Storme still uses old school mechanicals but still has very good ride and decent handling, would you say its the best compromise?

Thanks in advance

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by KrishD

Thanks tsk!
I guess the compromise between a comfortable car for everyday use and an ideal one for these mountain situations is not an easy one to achieve. However, given our budgets and our lives, neither is it practical to own two cars nor is it a great option to buy something which breaks your bones and gives you a stiff shoulder in everyday use.
Given that the Storme still uses old school mechanicals but still has very good ride and decent handling, would you say its the best compromise?

Thanks in advance

Yes. The Storme is a good compromise because major problems of the safari(eg turning radius, that silly vague steering etc.,) have been solved.
Its expensive in 4x4 form though at 15L
But you do get ABS and Airbags.

[ramkya1]

Hai Eric,

That was a bone-honest review and opinion... very different form many that I have seen from other 4x4 Scorpio owners. Your account of the terrain, different vehicles and Mhwak seem objective, lots of food for thought. Nice pictures too.

I had a Crde 2007-2011, did about 90K in all kinds of terrains, almost the length and breadth of India, including 2 Ladakh drives. Got the 4x4 Mhwak in 2011, have done about 50 K now, including another Ladakh run. Recently I did a 5 K+ run to south through Coorg, Western Ghats, just to give a background.

Have used the 4x4 many times on slush, some minor OTR's (use a 550 for heavier ones) and difficult terrain, did use it a lot on Rothang, Rani-nu-nullah slush and some snow last June. My take:

The Mhwak torque curve is liner, as an insider in M&M said for +ve effect on mileage. The Crde is better off the block but was much more bouncier, noisier, less refined and scary on hard braking. The Mhwak 4x4's torsion bars and ABS gives more stiffer and predictable results, you have to keep the engine boiling (your point on low end torque) to keep it moving, but not much of a bother. I am surprised on the 3.8 rpm power not enough etc., as SS Traveler said, may be the turbo! It should have delivered power there, a brute in that range, usually!

I've sifted on the fly to 2H, a little wait, it grinds on. On 2 occasions at a friends farm, the 1-2L took it up a step boulder road without problem, heart-in-mouth kind of a slope, pretty powerful and needs careful tendering. Recently, in Kerala, had to use the 2H on the fly on a road, slush+ rocks, to the resort, fully loaded, 4 adults, worked well for me. On the flip side, the electrical shifter is SHITTY, a chink in the Armour if you will. The lights and the mechanism are temperamental, you have to trust your senses more than the lights on this Wish there's a way to make it manual, the Pajero is so predictable, have seen a lot of these in OTR's. That said, I've sealed up the electricals of the motor with silicone sealant and a spray of varnish to protect against water ingress, after which I've not had ANY problem, even during the last Ladakh run and heavy water crossings after Keylong. Crossed fingers here.....

After the last trip to Kerala, the front shocks were noisy, hitting stops, got it checked, they had to be replaced, all the bushes in the front, the balancing rod bushes and the front brake pads too. I guess the wear and tear is bound to happen more on twisty roads.

As for the Master - Slave cylinders, my slaves are long gone at 37K kms along with the clutch plates, another chink if you will. My left legs are pretty powerful, thanks to Scirpio's cluth. Many people would be tempted to say, Oh... 37 K KMs? Yes. I don't ride the clutch, I know it burns the clutch, it's the Ghost is in the machine!

As SS Traveller and others said, a family 4x4 tourer at this price is not available, have researched enough, what a shame we don't have alternatives.

I feel driving in 4L for non slippery surfaces is not ideal, transmission wind-up can chew out joints quickly, shear bolts & twist components. Would be best to re-think the strategy. For long distances on 4L, I'd have to be very pressed!

You're right about the claddings, it's a dust accumulator, the guy who cleaned my car at Palakkad was seeing stars after dust that kept on coming form inside, the water jets need to be used on the edges to move the muck out.

Another point: My wife loves driving the Mhwak, most of our long distance drives now, she does 40-50% of the drive, may be I'm getting older!

@ 1110D: "I do have a Mechanical Locking Diff from Mahindra on mine" Is this option available now? Would be nice! Is it a lever?

--Ramky
=====

[Ashish B]

Good review. Just a small correction (already pointed out by many fellows). Scorpio 2.6 Turbo came in 4WD (although it had to be custom ordered).

I am using the beast for many years (mine is 2004 chain drive model, done 150000 kms, and still going strong) for daily drive, a few Desert Storms and occasional off-road vehicle. In love with it!!

Cheers/ AB

[nanju]

Originally Posted by ramkya1

Hai Eric,

On the flip side, the electrical shifter is SHITTY, a chink in the Armour if you will. The lights and the mechanism are temperamental, you have to trust your senses more than the lights on this Wish there's a way to make it manual, the Pajero is so predictable, have seen a lot of these in OTR's.

--Ramky
=====

100% agree with you on this, I tried a lot of option for my 4WD and have come with a fail proof solution, where I have sacrificed 4H. I have fixed 2 normal switches, One is a direct switch for 2H - 4L. its a fail proof option, The second switch is a power switch which transfers power to this operation.

The original shifter will also need to be engaged to engage the auto lock hubs.

Havent had problems after that, as i haven't felt the need to engage 4H till now.

The reliability and grunt of the machine is matchless compared to any Indian SUV

[Sutripta]

^^^
Would like to have more details on your mod. AFAIK, the XFer case selector is motor driven, with shaft encoders for position feedback.

Regards
Sutripta

[maverickrider00]

Thank you, Eric for this amazing poet, the pictures are hauntingly beautiful, your trip must have been one of a ride with snow and slush. Although, I own an Ford Ecosport 1.5 TDci, I am not exactly a fan of these new fangled turbo-charged vehicles simply because their low end torque might leave you in an uneasy spot when you need them most. Maybe it is because I have grown up ( I am 30,BTW) watching those old M&Ms and Gipsys tackle every kind of terrain, I as a driver still love the old-school naturally aspirated engines and this is also due to the fact that I live in the hills where the terrain is not that different from Spiti's. Great post, thanks a lot,

[1100D]

Originally Posted by KrishD

Thanks tsk!

Given that the Storme still uses old school mechanicals but still has very good ride and decent handling, would you say its the best compromise?

Thanks in advance

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Yes. The Storme is a good compromise because major problems of the safari(eg turning radius, that silly vague steering etc.,) have been solved.
Its expensive in 4x4 form though at 15L
But you do get ABS and Airbags.

There is another aspect to this compromise, that its a Tata! Stories from insiders, some of whom are prolific members of this forum, it would be quite some time before, atleast I, would be comfortable putting my money on a product from the company.

Originally Posted by ramkya1

@ 1110D: "I do have a Mechanical Locking Diff from Mahindra on mine" Is this option available now? Would be nice! Is it a liver?

--Ramky
=====

Life is better now, you get the thing off the shelf these days, check this thread out

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-te...off-shelf.html

Here is the report from my ownership thread as well

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ve...ml#post2745881

Its not actuated by a lever/switch or any external inputs, its self actuated by difference of rpm (100rpm) between the left and right rear wheels

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by 1100D

There is another aspect to this compromise, that its a Tata! Stories from insiders, some of whom are prolific members of this forum, it would be quite some time before, atleast I, would be comfortable putting my money on a product from the company.

Actually I would find buying a Mahindra quite risky. Tata could solve many problems in the 2.2 like injectors, ECU etc., which were complex problems. However, Mahindra lacks the technical expertise to solve a slave cylinder issue.

[1100D]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Tata could solve many problems in the 2.2 like injectors, ECU etc., which were complex problems.

Which means there were quite a few problems to start with.

At the risk of starting a Tata vs Mahindra debate here, hence trying to avoid. The best judge would probably be the long term ownership reports of vehicles from both stables in terms of problems per vehicle.

However, I can vouch for my own ownership thus far, and probably SS-T's as well, we have had a relatively smooth experience so far. His vehicle having crossed the 1Lakh mark, mine nearing it by about 5k.

On the otherhand, I guess, its upto the company that has more "auto passion" on its top leadership.

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by 1100D

.

No war. The point I was making is more with the current crop of mm vehicles. Older stock was better. Moreover I do not consider problematic vehicles to be trouble free vehicles. Of course some can say "all you need to do is change engine every 20k kms". . Or change bushes every 10000. Or do not drive vehicle and it will not breakdown.

Only reliable vehicle in sub 25l is fortuner I think

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Only reliable vehicle in sub 25l is fortuner I think

And that's a cool 10L in addition to what one pays for a Tata/M&M 4x4.

[COUGAR]

Slightly dissapointed to read this review as the VLX was on top of my purchase list! :(

I had the opportunity to drive a friends Scorpio VLX AT 2WD, 500 odd kms to Aut in Himachal and back. Was blown away by the overall experience (to put things in perspective my regular car is a Gypsy)! Was even more impressed with the killer pricing and the experience at the Mahindra Dealership!

Extremely unresponsive engine with basically zero low-end torque, and a highly impractical power-delivery curve, that stuggled (unless resorting to 4x4 low range) to get moving from a standstill up even the milder grades.

I went on a mild offroad trail for the last 25 kms to Aut, and I noticed a distinctly sluggish response even on the mildest incline. But it was my first time driving a AT and I didnt know about the "M" mode which we are to use in these situations - was told about it when i went for Test Drive at the dealer.

[itwasntme]

Excellent thread with very very honest and objective opinions, insights and context-setting from Eric, TSK, Desertfox, ramkya, SST etc.

This is exactly the kind of stuff that makes TBHP such an obsessive read :-)

[fine69]

Is the Duster 4x4 missed by anyone? I think it would be a fairly reliable 4x4 even if it costs ~14-15 lakhs for a 5-seater.