[desertfox]

Originally Posted by Parm

Shahid,

Any views on the Extreme Offroad Vehicle 4x4x4 from Force Motors?

They are promoting it as world's First EOV and comes loaded with diff locks, which is one up on the Thar!

Would you go for it?

Quite honestly I have very little experience, never driven this and seen only one, Rahul Roy of NIOC has a hardtop Gurkha which I have seen doing rather well in NIOC organized off road events. None on the road, no idea where the Force Motors showroom is in Gurgaon, but seeing Rahul's car it was good to note that one can off road in air-conditioned comfort.

[DirtyDan]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Guys, move on, look to the future, its time has come - what next? the big guys are coming and after seeing Duster, they will not be pricey, the game has changed! How to counter without cost advantage? The edge here is that we Indians know the Indian market best. They may have the product but will they have the "use suitability"? India is one of the toughest markets to crack for any automobile product. Well, let the game begin! This will be a positive discussion, let's do this Sharath, I request you to please do the honours by starting a separate thread.

Behram Dhabhar

I think the Thar CRDe will have the added beneficial impact of allowing more people to get into the back country, enjoy nature and thereby stimulate more interest and demand for off-roading capable vehicles. What's coming in the next 5 years may be very interesting due in part to the arrival of the Thar even with its flaws.

It is my good fortune to be able to build out an off-roader if I so desire but I hope some company will soon market one and drop it neatly in my lap. If that happens it will be due in part to the creation of the Thar.

[Parm]

Has anyone know about similar complaints from RSA Thar owners?

Is it the driver and not the machine which is causing problems in india?

I have posted one photo of JK along with RSA Thar photos, just to show Thar can do what JK is doing!

[desertfox]

With what tyres is the Thar exported to SOuth Africa and other places the same 235 Bridgestone HT ? or some better off road tyres ?

[headers]

Originally Posted by desertfox

If someone doesn't want to understand then its his choice.

MM550 + MM540 + Cj3B + CJ3A + Willys MB + Ford GPW + Gypsy + 4x4 CL340 = Thar Rescue vehicle
QED

^^^

I am sure M&M have the capabilities of creating a solid Axle Coil Spring 4x4 vehicle with a more reliable and responsive steering system under 10L price point.

The issue is whether they want to!!

[DirtyDan]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

We know that a majority of Thar users and aspirants are not hard core off-roaders. Such a segment exists and it is a huge chunk. In absence of anything in the low price range, most of them in North India are forced to use spruced up 2WD vehicles.

I bought a Thar a month ago as my Invader is in need of repair and is not trustworthy at the moment. Thar was the only viable alternative on the market for use in the deep Himalayas IMHO.

Other vehicles I considered:

Scorpio....too big, constant troubles with its hubs.
Bolero Camper...bad 3.73 differential ratios
Gypsy......fuel average pathetic
Fortuner...8 months for delivery and looks like a rolling suppository.
Pajero......overpriced for what it is.

Swift Desire, Toyota Etios, etc. almost went this way with plans to resurrect my Invader but I can't trust the mechanics here to fix it in a timely way.

You see, it's not just a question of Thar versus Off-roader, it's also a question of Thar Versus two wheelers and SUVs. Mahindra hit a marketplace bullseye. Hopefully the Thar will stimulate interest in purer off roaders.

I wish you guys would try to get passed the polemics of Thar versus Off-roaders. Let's look forward to what may be coming, coming in part because the Thar is now a bald reality that the competition may wish to answer.

[condor]

Originally Posted by Parm

I have posted one photo of JK along with RSA Thar photos, just to show Thar can do what JK is doing!

@Parm, pls check earlier posts in this thread where there was a hint of the difference between the Indian version & the export version of the Thar

[Dodge_Viper]

Originally Posted by DirtyDan

Scorpio....too big, constant troubles with its hubs.

Not to deviate from topic, but what kind of problems Scorpio 4x4 faces?

[Rajith]

Originally Posted by Dodge_Viper

Not to deviate from topic, but what kind of problems Scorpio 4x4 faces?

Theres no problem with hubs in scorpio 4wd. Infact THAR CRDe,Scorpio 4wd and upto Safari Dicor 4wd shares same auto hubs from Borg W.

[Parm]

Originally Posted by DirtyDan

I bought a Thar a month ago as my Invader is in need of repair and is not trustworthy at the moment. Thar was the only viable alternative on the market for use in the deep Himalayas IMHO.

Other vehicles I considered:

Scorpio....too big, constant troubles with its hubs.
Bolero Camper...bad 3.73 differential ratios
Gypsy......fuel average pathetic
Fortuner...8 months for delivery and looks like a rolling suppository.
Pajero......overpriced for what it is.

Swift Desire, Toyota Etios, etc. almost went this way with plans to resurrect my Invader but I can't trust the mechanics here to fix it in a timely way.

You see, it's not just a question of Thar versus Off-roader, it's also a question of Thar Versus two wheelers and SUVs. Mahindra hit a marketplace bullseye. Hopefully the Thar will stimulate interest in purer off roaders.

I wish you guys would try to get passed the polemics of Thar versus Off-roaders. Let's look forward to what may be coming, coming in part because the Thar is now a bald reality that the competition may wish to answer.

Dan, i dont see any TATA vehicle in your list. Any reasons you dont like TATA vehicles or they dont suit your needs?

Sumo = the Old workhorse.
Xenon = the NEW workhorse.

Originally Posted by gthang

On that note, was wondering a few things about the Thar. Doubt if will get truthful responses, but still:

1. When did the export version of Thar hit M&M product line?
2. How long did it take between launch of export Thar and Indian Thar?
3. Which team developed the export version of Thar?
4. How much is different from an export Thar and Indian Thar other than RHD?
5. What components of Indian Thar was difficult to push through management?

Actually, doing good work might not be enough. Professional ethics also might be very important.

Cheers.

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear gthang - thank you for asking four correct questions. Answers are as follows:

1. Export from December 2009, domestic from 21 December 2010.
2. 1 year.
3. Same team.
4. The whole vehicle. .
+ 5. The answer to your last paragraph is: .

This is one of the best answers that I have ever given on TeamBHP. "Yippee, I'm lovin' it"! Thank you gthang.

Dear vivekgk - thank you for summing up so well. Allow me to make one small change though, Thar CRDe is not a compromise. It is exactly what we as a team had always expected it to be!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

If thats the case, the whole Export Thar is totally different from Indian Thar, even if its a Jugaad Hybrid (550+Bolero+Scorpio).

Well, if this Jugaad Hybrid is selling like hot cakes, and the punjab market has pushed MM to launch it in White colour, it sure is a "Bingo" for BD and his team!

It is the MOST sought after JEEP in India at the moment! thats the bottom line.

(Sorry for two side by side posts, but the situation demanded two separate posts for two separate subjects.)

[vivekgk]

Originally Posted by starter

Dear Vivek,
My sincere request to you would be to drive the Thar for some time.
And i would agree with your above statement if and only IF your family size is you + 1 (a total of 2).
If your family size is more than 2, i just do not see how the Thar could be your hatch/sedan replacement.
Cheers,
Deepak

PS: I've tried convincing my folks by having the Thar for more than a week and have failed.
PPS: I am not even talking about those abysmal brakes and lack of essential safety features.

What makes you think I haven't driven the Thar? I admit I havent driven one extensively, or on major off-road trips, but the time I spent driving a friend's Thar was convincing enough for me. I admit that the seating is a problem, but my friends vehicle had been modified with a couple of front facing bucket seats at the rear.

The brakes were fine on the one I drove. As you said, lack of safety features is a concern.

That said, if you drive a tall Jeep like the Thar, there is an inherent safety that comes from other road users not daring to play games with you. On the highway drive that I took, I was delighted to find out that Innovas and Swift diesels tended to pull back into their lane rather than force me off road so they can overtake, as they do when I'm driving a car. I think there's something about a seeing big chrome bull bar on a jeep coming your way that makes you rethink stupid moves.

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by DirtyDan

Mahindra hit a marketplace bullseye.

They surely did. Atleast in Kerala, where the Thar is a common sight on the roads. And not just in the hilly parts where Jeeps were anyway favoured for long, but even in the plains like my home district of Alappuzha.

Am neither an offroader nor have any interest in going over ditches / dunes, but the Thar appeals to me a lot even from the outside (never been in one) - it looks neat, has a decent paint-job etc, like I am sure it does to many others who don't really dig offroading. Which would explain the success of the Thar, inspite of not meeting the requirements of the hard-core offroaders here.

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Originally Posted by Parm

Well, if the punjab market has pushed MM to launch it in White colour, it sure is a "Bingo" for BD and his team! It is the MOST sought after JEEP in India at the moment! thats the bottom line.

Dear Parm - "It is the MOST sought after JEEP in India at the moment! Thats the bottom line". Thanks my dear friend, you have nailed it. "FULL AND FINAL". It is a complete "Bingo" for us. And - thanks for posting the South Africa pictures, see the articulation at the angles of operation! By the way, the black vehicle is 521's sibling!

Dear TeamBHPians, please don't ask me who this paragraph is for - "arre bhailog, poori duniya ke saamne prove kar diya hai! Bahut koshish ki thi naa, kya hua? Dekho abhi"!

That's all!

.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[gthang]

Originally Posted by Parm

If thats the case, the whole Export Thar is totally different from Indian Thar, even if its a Jugaad Hybrid (550+Bolero+Scorpio).

Well, if this Jugaad Hybrid is selling like hot cakes, and the punjab market has pushed MM to launch it in White colour, it sure is a "Bingo" for BD and his team!

It is the MOST sought after JEEP in India at the moment! thats the bottom line.

For someone so knowledgeable and opinionated about Jeeps, surprising that you would be naive enough to believe the reply that the export Thar and Indian Thar are completely different. Another victim of semantics, I suppose.

Odd that low volumes and product sustainability were the reasons used for justifying the rickshaw like interiors. But now, it seems that sales success was a planned event. So, what gives?

Cheers.

[desertfox]

South Africa is not a very affluent community nor a booming economy for all.
A cheap 4x4 would always be welcome. A 200 BHP Jeep is not required here the terrain is hard and muddy mostly.
Can anyone post the price of a Mahindra Thar and a Jeep Wrangler JK and a Suzuki Vitara from SOuth Africa, the truth will come out why it is selling a few units.