[1100D]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

The timeless shapes of the "CJ" and the "MM" are the last umbilical cords of the company which owes its existence to this wonderful vehicle called "Jeep".

One quick question, we know that the Thar Underpinnings have nothing to do with the Jeep legacy. But Does the MM540 body/tub have anything to do with JEEP?

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by 1100D

One quick question, we know that the Thar Underpinnings have nothing to do with the Jeep legacy. But Does the MM540 body/tub have anything to do with JEEP?

Yes, its the same relation as shared by Samsung Galaxy S3 and Star galaxy S3

[Shera]

The thread is titled 'Why I won't buy the Thar' and some of us have lost the plot here somewhere. Let's leave passion, compassion, emotions and sentiments aside. They do not belong on this thread. Let's stick to the topic.
I agree with what tsk1979, alpha1 and invincible7 had to say.
M&M should have come out with a basic base model and customised the rest on request. This would have ensured that the work was done on production line by the experts and to specs.
The truth is that Thar is over priced and gives nothing in return to the buyer. The bare basics provided are of sub standard. Where is the sense in changing the whole vehicle to make it worth driving..most of the so called enthusiasts have changed the brakes, the seats, the steering, the interiors, lights, horn, switches, work on the rattling etcetra etcetra
If one has to work on the bare stuf and bring it up to standard then what are we talking about..? it beats my sensibility..
In which other make of vehicle does one have to do the same..?? you drive it off the showroom and then just enhance it or do cosmetic changes to it to suit ones whim and fancy.
The problem is that Thar doesn't have competition hence it sells like 'hot cakes', as someone mentioned. It would be very interesting to see if it did sell if there were half a dozen more brands selling the same product....that's when the product is valued and admired.
With total monopoly in the market under this category, it is no surprise that the customers bite their tongues and buy it, and most of them go out and fulfil it with their local garages to bring it to some sort of driving pleasure.
I, for one would not take pride in such a product.
All due respect to person(s) involved in making the dream work..but the fact is that the dream is half fulfilled.
Bottom line is that Thar could have been an outstanding and landmark brand in the Indian automobile industry..but it has failed.
Whether I am wrong or right, this is my view and precisely why I have stayed away from buying the THAR.

Mod Note : Please avoid typing with excessive dots.........like................this.

Thanks

[manolin]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Mahindra does not make jeeps. Has not made them for many many years. But Chrysler(who make jeeps) is coming to India, and you know where to send your resume to to fulfill your dream of JEEP!

Since you use the generic name jeep, as opposed to the Chrysler trademark 'Jeep', happy to say, Mahindra makes jeeps

This is a conundrum - if a manufacturer makes a licensed version of a product. After the license expires, he makes modified and slightly evolved versions of the same product - will the general public accept the evolved product, a mark II if you may call it, by the same name. Note that the original manufacturer is at the same time evolving it in a different direction.

I think Mahindra when it was making the Classic and now with the Thar is still making the jeep. Its a similar proposition to what the army does - it buys vehicles, aircraft under license, and then upgrades them manytimes over in their lifecycle to keep them running. In some cases, like in fighter jets, the external stuff remains the same but the internal stuff like avionics and the displays are all modified to such an extent that it is no longer the same aircraft. But everyone still calls it Mig 21.

Note I am not going by the legal definitions. Legally, if Chrsyler made a boat and called it a Jeep, one would have to agree that it is a Jeep, no matter what the actual history is.

Therefore when DB says that I want to see a Jeep, what does he mean. I think he means that the same body shape underpinnings, carried forward to the maximum evolution possible. Seen in that context, Thar is definitely step one of this modern realisation of the jeep. Whether, Mahindra takes in to the mark II, III, IV and forth is something which only present Mahindra employees can say. Does it have a future - anybody's guess. Does the Mark I suffice presently - nope for the consumer, but for the manufacturer, it validates the product and market.

[Shera]

Originally Posted by manolin

Does the Mark I suffice presently - nope for the consumer, but for the manufacturer, it validates the product and market.

That Say's it all - the manufacturer is so far not bothered as it doesn't have any competition.. but there will come a time when he will be concerned..maybe not, if until now the consumer's signals haven't made any difference, I doubt it ever will.. probably they will sit up to realise when their sales dip..or when a visionary takes control and fights the system.. who knows..I certaily don't care until a product worthy it's price is rolled out of the production line.

Mod Note : Please avoid typing with excessive dots.........like................this.

Thanks

[Sudarshan]

Originally Posted by anda60213

The ford ecosport will serve my needs for urban lifestyle not only just as well but a whole lot better - what with all the other creature comforts already available in it.====

This explains that your decision to buy a Thar was not well informed . You confused your Needs with the shape of vehicle in your dream ( Jeep )

Originally Posted by Shera

The thread is titled 'Why I won't buy the Thar' and some of us have lost the plot here somewhere. Let's leave passion, compassion, emotions and sentiments aside. They do not belong on this thread. Let's stick to the topic.

Plus 1

1

M&M should have come out with a basic base model and customised the rest on request. This would have ensured that the work was done on production line by the experts and to specs.

2

The bare basics provided are of sub standard. Where is the sense in changing the whole vehicle to make it worth driving..most of the so called enthusiasts have changed the brakes, the seats, the steering, the interiors, lights, horn, switches, work on the rattling etcetra etcetra

3

If one has to work on the bare stuf and bring it up to standard then what are we talking about..? it beats my sensibility..

I am confused between 1 & 2,3 what exactly are you trying to suggest ? MM should have provided a vehicle without seats & lights ? A chassis & cowl ? BTW good Idea for Jeep enthusiasts, cost effective too.

The problem is that Thar doesn't have competition hence it sells like 'hot cakes', as someone mentioned. It would be very interesting to see if it did sell if there were half a dozen more brands selling the same product....that's when the product is valued and admired.

The Q is why no other company has done it in 5/6 lakh bracket ? Who has stopped them ?? But I think this is the point ( lack of competition ),based on which MM has put the high price tag. They want maximum benefit out of it.

All due respect to person(s) involved in making the dream work..but the fact is that the dream is half fulfilled.

Very True

Bottom line is that Thar could have been an outstanding and landmark brand in the Indian automobile industry..but it has failed.
.

I dont see a failure as such, its only the price thats killing it . Had it been some lakh & half cheaper, half of the cribing you would not have heard.

The exorbitant price tag that does not justify the product, which is otherwise still one of a kind of its own. Its a bold experiment . Its an ice beaker. NO other manufacturer has even thought of such till today. (Have they)

But the greed of MM for money.. has made it overpriced & the price tag does not justify the actual product thats the problem with Thar CRDe

Sudarshan

[Sudarshan]

Clarification to Anil

I know your painful experience with Thar ownership & I respect your feelings about it. We have discussed a lot on this elsewhere (online) .

But I do disagree with you on some points.

So please do not take my remarks personally, these are just views nothing more.

Now that you are clear from the mishap (yes I know, I also have some "Lemon" experience with MM), I wish at this point of time that you make some right choice of an Automobile (Auto was wrong choice of word for this), say like duster/ecosport etc, & move on enjoying it with the family.

So no hard feelings

Cheers

Sudarshan

[slicvic]

Originally Posted by invincible7

I think it would have been must great if M&M would have given options to the customer to just have a base platform at a resonable price and then customize it based on their requirements.

IMHO this option was there after the Mahindra Classic was stopped in 2000 or 2001, but there were not many takers for this. Perhaps someone else can throw some light on this. Forgot what it was called.

[Grace]

Originally Posted by slicvic

IMHO this option was there after the Mahindra Classic was stopped in 2000 or 2001, but there were not many takers for this. Perhaps someone else can throw some light on this. Forgot what it was called.

Hi.

Was it Quadra, quad something.

A prototype with aluminium finishing was made. I believe the pricing and also the lack of takers made M&M shelve the project. Vinod Nookla or DB may shed some more light on this.

Andy

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Originally Posted by Grace

Was it Quadra, quad something. A prototype with aluminium finishing was made. I believe the pricing and also the lack of takers made M&M shelve the project. Vinod Nookla or DB may shed some more light on this. Andy

Dear Andy - it was called "Quadro". Only 60 vehicles were made in Kandivli in 2005 to mark the occasion of 60 years of the company. These were "signature vehicles". They were with 4WD, NGCS, XD3 engine, BA10 transmission, 4.88:1 axle ratio, Scorpio alloy wheels with 235/70R16 tires, rollover bar and winch (yes, factory fitted Ramsey 8000 lbs winch!). These were the good things. Then they spoilt it by fitting 4 absolutely silly looking lights fitted haphazardly on top of the windshield, all pointing in different directions. The instrument panel was pseudo-coated with upholstery material or something. The stereo system was looking worst than aftermarket. Seats were green, so were the vehicles! We could actually see that the product was a result of "decisions taken in meetings" / "as required by marketing" / "drawing released, yes Sir" syndrome, but we could not do anything about it! It was sad to see the product systematically destroyed. We could only be passive spectators. I cringed at the very sight of these beautiful vehicles, decked up so garishly. They were nowhere near the Thar in terms of performance etc. Even the canopy was crap, they could not even make a simple canopy properly. It took me only 4 days to make the Thar CRDe canopy, HaHaHa! You can see it without the canopy in one scene of the Hindi movie "Rajneeti" where Arjun Rampal uses it for some election campaign!

Dear slicvic - obviously the original CL340 is still the best vehicle. Nothing comes close it it, not even my Thar! Many factors systematically killed it. To meet noise norms, 5 spped transmission is a must. Its wheelbase @ 80 inches was so small, that in the layout, the transfer case ended after the rear axle started so the rear propeller shaft could not be packaged at all. Then, some moron actually scrapped the dies also. I wanted to do business with it as it is, not selling vehicles but selling aggregates and parts, including the chassis and the body to you guys. I know that many of you would have lapped up the parts, making the business profitable. Alas! Sad for all of us, isn't it? Who to tell and what to tell? If it is convenient not to listen, or to ignore, it is time to lose business! Forget it!

And finally, dear all - this thread has been fantastic. All of you are ranting and raving why you will not buy the Thar! I know that most of you are not buying it due to the price (me included). Fact remains that you are not ignoring it either! So thank you for making me happy! Yaaaayyyyy! .

.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[anda60213]

Originally Posted by Sudarshan

I know your painful experience with Thar ownership & I respect your feelings about it. We have discussed a lot on this elsewhere (online) .

Thanks.

Losing 2.5 lacs of Rupees due to this decision has not been very easy for me. And to think that I could have avoided it if only I had done even a little bit of research before making this decision. This makes it even more painful.

And yet as I mentioned before - I would rather lose this money now rather than live with the problem on a daily basis not knowing what else would fall apart when and then when it does, make runs to the workshop to get it fixed. I just don't have that kind of time as well.

Writing posts on this forum is hardly 5 minutes, 10 minutes, say 30 minutes a day. A trip to the workshop costs me the whole day for taking and another for getting back and I still need a backup vehicle in the days in between.

This decision has not only costed me the financial loss that I incurred , I also lost a lot of time and several opportunities to earn money during the time I lost.

And to think that in this day and age there are manufacturers like M&M who have no respect for the customers and churn out sub standard products.

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

And finally, dear all - this thread has been fantastic. All of you are ranting and raving why you will not buy the Thar! I know that most of you are not buying it due to the price (me included). Fact remains that you are not ignoring it either! So thank you for making me happy! Yaaaayyyyy!

DB ji, Hindi me kahawat hai - Badnaam hue to kya hua - naam to hua! Jai Ho! Jai Hind! Mera Bharat Mahan!

You have great dreams. Unfortunately it has not been fulfilled for you nor for the people whom you dreamed of gifting your dream to. With all respect for you as a person, it has not turned out as you or anyone else desires it.

Regards,

[salilpawar1]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear Andy - it was called "Quadro". Only 60 vehicles were made in Kandivli in 2005 to mark the occasion of 60 years of the company. These were "signature vehicles". They were with 4WD, NGCS, XD3 engine, BA10 transmission, 4.88:1 axle ratio, Scorpio alloy wheels with 235/70R16 tires, rollover bar and winch (yes, factory fitted Ramsey 8000 lbs winch!). These were the good things. Then they spoilt it by fitting 4 absolutely silly looking lights fitted haphazardly on top of the windshield, all pointing in different directions. The instrument panel was pseudo-coated with upholstery material or something. The stereo system was looking worst than aftermarket. Seats were green, so were the vehicles! We could actually see that the product was a result of "decisions taken in meetings" / "as required by marketing" / "drawing released, yes Sir" syndrome, but we could not do anything about it! It was sad to see the product systematically destroyed. We could only be passive spectators. I cringed at the very sight of these beautiful vehicles, decked up so garishly. They were nowhere near the Thar in terms of performance etc. Even the canopy was crap, they could not even make a simple canopy properly. It took me only 4 days to make the Thar CRDe canopy, HaHaHa! You can see it without the canopy in one scene of the Hindi movie "Rajneeti" where Arjun Rampal uses it for some election campaign!

BD Sir,

What you are referring to is the "Legend" signed by KC Mahindra.

The Quadro was a "neticle" (net+vehicle) launched somewhere in 2000 which one could fully customise online and place an order.

There was also the "Rumbler" launched at the same time with a similar concept based on the Mahindra Utiliti platform.

Regards.

[Rajith]

Originally Posted by salilpawar1

BD Sir,

What you are referring to is the "Legend" signed by KC Mahindra.

The Quadro was a "neticle" (net+vehicle) launched somewhere in 2000 which one could fully customise online and place an order.

There was also the "Rumbler" launched at the same time with a similar concept based on the Mahindra Utiliti platform.

Regards.

Legend was never XD3, but it was DI Turbo. Its much better than THAR DI in all aspects. Except the canopy & dash board.

Seems it was sold in 2006.I decided to say NO for the offer, I miss it a lot now..

[yamaniac]

I dont own a thar! But my BIL does. He maintains it well, The vehicle is 1 year old, has completed 8 K Kms until now. A couple of off roading here and there.

He keeps a screwdriver and some tools which he keeps in handy, to fix things that constantly falls off, even while driving inside the city, forget off the road.

I Must say except for the engine. Its not worth the price its put out at! My mm540 has better breaks in-spite being 20 years old. Its solid built.
while the thar looks like its made out of tin can! It has already started to rust.
Has a terrible body roll, What kind of off road vehicle has Such a terrible body roll? That gives you a feeling that it would topple?

I am not trying to compare here. But, if I am given a choice between a thar and some other option. I will take the other option. Because, I don't want to shell out on EMI's Plus spending on getting the vehicle road worthy.

I reckon what would the condition of the THAR be in another 5 years down the line? Probably keep FEVIQUICK with the other tools as well.

Here is another review I found on the THAR elsewhere, other than team BHP itself. http://www.carwale.com/research/user...aspx?rid=30368

[codelust]

Originally Posted by yamaniac

Has a terrible body roll, What kind of off road vehicle has Such a terrible body roll? That gives you a feeling that it would topple?

That's an easy one - A Scorpio :-)

Originally Posted by yamaniac

http://www.carwale.com/research/user...aspx?rid=30368

This is where it gets interesting. There are a total of eight reviews of the vehicle on the site (one of them is for the DI, so it does not really count.), of which five are pretty positive about the vehicle.

If I were to go only by that single review, I'll get the impression that everyone positively hates the vehicle.

Which prompts me to say again, the vehicle is poor value for money (even BD openly admits to this), but, to say that every owner is terribly unhappy with it is not true either.