[ringoism]

Just a teaser here, as taken with the phone, and taking the presently horrible internet service into account...

I / we haven't been on anything like a real tour in this region since Spiti/Kinnaur in 2016 ('17?)...

In fact we hadn't been outside H.P. at all since before Covid, so it seemed time - The kids had a short summer break which we decided to stretch a bit...

...And here we are in Ladakh.

Had thought we might have upgraded our vehicle by now, but as nothing particularly compelling or convenient has till now crossed our path, then as they say with cameras: "the best one is the one you have with you".

So spent a few days servicing the much-neglected Marshal, indeed reclaimed my loaned Sony DSLT, packed up and left...

It has been lovely, the car has overall performed better than expected, and about ten days into it, we're (God willing) anticipating a three-day return via Tso Moriri.

More later,

Eric

[ringoism]

Was going to just post some more pics, but somehow ended up with a travelogue:

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/trave...ml#post5382569 (Ladakh in Old Iron - Marshal's Last Stand?)

It was such a great journey, and I'm liking/ appreciating the old Marshal more than ever...

Regards,
-Eric.

[DirtyDan]

I was going to let it go and just hit the 'THANKS' button....but, my friend, that just won't suffice.

Erik, your pictures of the deep Himalayas and the Nubra Valley are just superb. You have captured the light, the shade, the earth tones. You have to see it to appreciate it. Even then you might not "get it". It's another world up there. Another planet. It is hard for human neurophysiology to process that the Nubra Valley floor is 10,000 feet high and the mountains around it soar to 25,000 feet. If you are blessed with a quiet contemplative spirit, you will be transfixed by the subtle beauty. It's there for you.

[MB4DI]

Originally Posted by ringoism

Was going to just post some more pics, but somehow ended up with a travelogue:

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/trave...ml#post5382569 (Ladakh in Old Iron - Marshal's Last Stand?)

It was such a great journey, and I'm liking/ appreciating the old Marshal more than ever...

Regards,
-Eric.

Hey Eric,

Your travelogue is an epic in itself. You have enabled us to see the core Himalayan country side in vividness.

Your appreciation of Marshal cements my faith further in my Bolero 4WD.
One day, I would definitely come to Manali to meet you for sure.

Regards,
MB4DI

[ringoism]

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/trave...ml#post5421103 (Himachal Lake Districts - A Family Tour)


Just the latest travel in the Marshal, for anyone who's not yet seen it.

Enjoy,

Eric

[ringoism]

I keep trying to figure out what to replace this car with. A part of me definitely doesn't want to replace it, ever.

Scorp / Storme) would seem most logical / linear upgrade, but 4wd's relatively rare, and as such just not finding one I would want at the right price. And those (except 1st gen) do get progressively more electronic & potentially less reliable / robust. Lack of articulation in the IFS does compromise offroad grip / performance a bit. Storme had an LSD I guess, which would help.

Other thing is that since we use our car for EVERYTHING it is seeming hard to use the Marshal rough & dirty for the rough stuff (hauling firewood and bicycles and gravel/ cement bags/ fruit crates, etc), and still keep the interior nice and tidy/ untorn, and smelling nice enough that my wife feels it's respectable...

Small trailer behind a Scorp? Nah, trailering too tough in India on account of road / driving conditions.

Getaway/ Xenon have been mentioned as solutions. Posh enough inside, while dirty / sharp / smelly stuff can be kept fully separate out back. Met a guy with a 3.0 4x4 white-plate Xenon this morning at the petrol pump... He likes it, says the maintenance costs are more vs. Bolero Camper (which everyone else he knows has), but not really prohibitive or constant, and much more comfy than those.

I also drove a Scorp Getaway 4x4 that was for sale locally a few weeks back and liked it - quiet and comfy and enough power, with all the basic creature comforts. Looks pretty butch too, and shares a lot of parts with the Scorps, so spares not likely much issue (unlike Xenon).

As all-rounders either of these could probably work, though negatively, turning radius is a lot more than the Marshal and that long box out back would seem to be an unwanted / unused appendage much of the time in daily driving... and the FE isn't exactly great on any of these either.

And then you don't have the covered/ secure/ accessible stowage for luggage while traveling, like in a standard SUV...

Can't have your cake and eat it too!

But I think these might be the best solution if we are to have only one vehicle.

If it seems better to just keep two cars, then I think it'll be a Duster/ Terrano for daily use / long tours, and a Ute of some kind for the rougher local work and offroad.

But then what happens when you're out touring and come across a Jeep trail (as we many times did in our last two journeys) or a snowy pass, or a mud-pit someplace? Eh... take the risk? Suffer? Turn around?

Phew... just can't figure this out. Going in circles and probably stated all this 3x earlier.

Probably the Getaway/ Xenon will have to do, accepting that fuel is going to cost more and it's gonna be tougher to maneuver / park sometimes.

Otherwise learn to be more conservative / less adventurous and stay more on-road when travelling.

My heart says get one of these:



...and do it up nice with a turbo/ 5-speed / Aircon / PS.

If the Marshal is rare, then M&M's "Utiliti" is almost totally forgotten. India's first "lifestyle" vehicle? Probably something like that. Came with vents for A/C, at least. Dashboards same as Armada's, which in their day were acrually pretty upscale!

Would be as comfy as required for us, still simple/reliable, live axle gives good articulation, and would maintain that same classic Jeep look as the Marshal... And I bet I could buy one dirt cheap by now, too.

There used to be a few up here on white plates. I only know of one now, a few hours south of here, 2wd and pre-NGCS.

I used to be able to find one in Google searches that had been set up nice and was participating in real OTR's. Internet is screwed now, you put in "Mahindra Utiliti" and it gives you everything but.

-Eric.

PS: EDIT: Ah, here we go -https://mahindramuseum.in/2022/03/29...ik-up-utiliti/

If anyone knows where I could find one of these, the NGCS 2000-up version, let me know here or via PM. Supposedly made them till 2006.

[dieselhead]

Originally Posted by ringoism

I keep trying to figure out what to replace this car with. A part of me definitely doesn't want to replace it, ever.

I am selling my Marshal with sz plus and 4x4. FD is 3.73 but change to 4.27. Plz pm if interested.

[Arjun.hb]

Originally Posted by ringoism

I keep trying to figure out what to replace this car with. A part of me definitely doesn't want to replace it, ever.


Probably the Getaway/ Xenon will have to do, accepting that fuel is going to cost more and it's gonna be tougher to maneuver / park sometimes.

Hello Eric,

Won’t a Bolero Camper/Scorpio getaway or Tata Yodha Crew cab with rear overhang chopped off make a ideal replacement?

[condor]

Originally Posted by ringoism

But I think these might be the best solution if we are to have only one vehicle.

If it seems better to just keep two cars, then I think it'll be a Duster/ Terrano for daily use / long tours, and a Ute of some kind for the rougher local work and offroad.

I am in a similar situation, but of milder magnitude. The solution I have opted for now is a 2011 ex-Army Gypsy to give company to my Storme.

None of the pickups will give good rear seat comfort, including the Getaway and the Xenon. Hence split the duty is a sensible option. Rather than an AWD Duster or such, a proper 4x4 would be better, but that will limit your options to a used Scorpio or Fortuner, the upcoming 5-door Gurkha, etc. Or may be a used Bolero, if one available.

[ringoism]

Originally Posted by condor

I am in a similar situation, but of milder magnitude. The solution I have opted for now is a 2011 ex-Army Gypsy to give company to my Storme.

... that will limit your options to a used Scorpio or Fortuner, the upcoming 5-door Gurkha, etc. Or may be a used Bolero, if one available.

Gurkha too new (pricey), Bolero too cramped inside (worse than Marshal really), Fortuner too opulent image-wise for rural Mizoram... plus the nearest Toyota service (if ever required) would be eight hours away from our plot there. Scorp resale values seem high on the 4wd's. S4+ could be almost perfect (if I wanted to spend 6+L), but then with all these, where do you load your manure/ gravel/ cement bags???

Your having owned a Storme, is there any reason you didn't mention that? Saw one (4x4) advertised recently in Lucknow (?)at 3.5L, which seems pretty appealing.

I THINK the Getaway rear seating is supposed to be considerably better than the Xenon - looked better in the one I inspected here locally. As of now our kids are pretty young and "flexible" - not sure their overall tolerance levels, as their long-run experience till now has been limited to the Marshal (no complaints there, actually). But I think they'd manage.

Other dream car is the Yeti, with its reclining REAR seats... now that would be a comfy car to munch miles in! Any breakdown/ mishap would be nightmarish, though.

So many compromises everywhere.

I'm not into hardcore off-road, so the departure/ breakover angles not very important. If it can handle slick and/or rutted tracks, water crossings, and serious (constructed) inclines that should be enough.

-Eric

[Red Liner]

I would do the Fortuner, opulence be damned. Sticker the car up, dont fix any gashes or bodywork. Let it look like an overland expedition vehicle. That would be one truck that does it all.

If you look like a hobo getting out of that, should be alright lol.

8 hours to the closest center, ok, but I don't think the truck needs as much work as the other brands of similar vintage.

[Shubhendra]

Originally Posted by ringoism

Your having owned a Storme, is there any reason you didn't mention that? Saw one (4x4) advertised recently in Lucknow (?)at 3.5L, which seems pretty appealing.

I'm not into hardcore off-road, so the departure/ breakover angles not very important. If it can handle slick and/or rutted tracks, water crossings, and serious (constructed) inclines that should be enough.

-Eric

I have had Storm for a few years, I have also had all models of Safari (TCIC to 3.0 to 2.2 Dicor v1, V2 to Storm). It is NOT abuse friendly and you really have to pamper it. Not et all advisable for remote areas. and that tall gears in Safari will frustrate you so much in hills that you may not drive it in hilly areas.
Frankly speaking, you don't have many options in 4x4 SUV class within 5-6 lacs budget (second hand) except Scorpio 4x4.
Its abuse friendly, low maintenance and spares are available everywhere.
If you can get an old Scorpio CRDe 4x4, nothing like it. It has enough torque at idle to pull the vehicle, and its a pretty reliable vehicle with minimal maintenance.

[ringoism]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

I would do the Fortuner, opulence be damned... That would be one truck that does it all.

But what about the manure!!!???

Originally Posted by Red Liner

If you look like a hobo getting out of that, should be alright lol.

Hehehe... Now that we've actually met a few times, it's safe for you to have me pegged: As one who among other things is (clearly) no slave to fashion :-) Hobo is a new one, but may be getting closer to the core truth...

Originally Posted by Shubhendra

I have had Storm for a few years, I have also had all models of Safari (TCIC to 3.0 to 2.2 Dicor v1, V2 to Storm). It is NOT abuse friendly and you really have to pamper it. Not et all advisable for remote areas. and that tall gears in Safari will frustrate you so much in hills that you may not drive it in hilly areas.

Great info, thanks - in the forums had ascertained that the 3.0 was worst in terms of gearing/grunt (have driven a 4x4 and felt it), that the 2.2 was better, and the Storme the best climber of all...

But I don't think I could find a more reputable source of info than someone who's owned them all... Thanks so much for your input, it may have saved me considerable pains.

As for the CRDe have heard some great things, reliable and seems a happy medium - but felt my friend's Thar, too, was weak in the lower end - at least at altitude - and several others here (Dirty Dan, MB4DI) have noted the same - I suspect that engine maybe came in slightly different states of tune depending on application. Later mHawks (2015-ish) also seem to have perked things up quite a bit vs the early ones, had looked at some ex-tunnel-project S4+'s, but they don't seem to be working out for purchase (excess red tape). .

Anyway, I believe my thoughts are distilling and hope/pray something is about to finally happen...

-Eric

[rakesh_r]

Originally Posted by ringoism

Gurkha too new (pricey),

-Eric

What about the old Gurkha, 2.2 or 2.6, came with a 3 inch lift lit, straight from the factory if I am not wrong?

[condor]

Originally Posted by ringoism

Your having owned a Storme, is there any reason you didn't mention that? Saw one (4x4) advertised recently in Lucknow (?)at 3.5L, which seems pretty appealing.

I think you have your answer now

I have the 4x2 version, and my running is pretty much city and some country side with decent roads. I drive carefully, and the Storme has served me well.

However your usage is different. I cant be suggesting something for you based on my usage, and also just because we have had Tata's for the past 22 years now. The Scorpio should be a good bet for you. I would suggest this over the Getaway too, based on a brief experience with similar pick-ups.