[Shubhendra]

Originally Posted by ringoism

But what about the manure!!!???

Use Jeep trailer for such applications. Its useful in a sense that you can separate that extra loading bay when not needed. Unlike pickups in which you always carry loading bay irrespective of your usage. I have been using 3 different type of trailers for my different use and I am happy.

Don't have picture of third trailer, its actually a standard jeep trailer without side walls to carry big objects.

[MB4DI]

Originally Posted by ringoism

Gurkha too new (pricey), Bolero too cramped inside (worse than Marshal really)

-Eric

I think the natural successor to your Marshal would be a LWB Bolero DI(spacious than regular Bolero), lots of availability in the Rajasthan state.

Post 2014, has better ergonomics along with the AC, demister and heater come as standard. Excellent availability of spares, almost everywhere.




Regards,
MB4DI

[ringoism]

As some of you know, we got a Getaway... Related posts were all shifted over there, so if interested, check them out at:

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-v...a-marshal.html (Mahindra Getaway 4x4 | Our Final Solution | Replacement for Mahindra Marshal?)

[ringoism]

Had sometimes wondered what it would look like with more rubber.



Took these from the Getaway... still not sure what I'm going to do yet. The Scorp wheels I've been running all this time are 7" wide, these ones are around 8.5", but of course it's the positive offset that makes the bigger difference. If I mod two of them to make a more neutral offset, it might actually work alright to put those on the front of the Marshal, and leave the positive offset ones on back; this could actually equalize the front and rear track measurement, vs the
(bit quirky) large OE disparity. Should look better and very likely may drive a little straighter as well. They won't be rotatable then, but I never did so anyway - the alignment and geometry are so perfect that I never did get any uneven tyre wear.

For comparison's sake, the stock 7.5" Getaway rim & 245/75-16 tyre... with the proper offset.



Still enough clearance from the leaf springs - even with my steering stops set very sharp... turning radius is so good on these NGCS - much, much better than Gypsies.

I figure since the wife will be driving the Getaway now, I don't mind having something a little wider that requires more steering effort on the Marshal.

-Eric

[vivekdewanta]

Originally Posted by ringoism

Had sometimes wondered what it would look like with more rubber.

I have been following your posts for many years about your Marshal. Today I'm just curious to know the last stories of your vehicle if get some time do post it.

[ringoism]

Originally Posted by vivekdewanta

I have been following your posts for many years about your Marshal. Today I'm just curious to know the last stories of your vehicle if get some time do post it.

The car is running great, doing frequent local duty. Still love this car. It needs the wipers fixed (linkage broke recently), and a couple interior door handles, otherwise really is just a get-in-and-go-anywhere-anytime type vehicle. With the self-starter rebuild 1.5 years ago, it fires up so easily on cold Himalayan mornings. In general the ancient N/A DI with its heavy flywheel idles smoother than the CRDe. Just a great car.

Have lately considered selling it mainly due to some obvious redundancy, also due to some uncertainty surrounding future registrations (RC good till 4/26, and I told that in MZ there are no age limits as we are supposedly facing elsewhere), and the ~₹9k insurance cost per year when it's not in daily use... But then I drive it (out to lunch with friends today, for example) and the temptation to keep it begins all over again.



I have a turbo-model exhaust manifold and a K03 turbo unit taken from a Scorpio CRDe ready to be fitted if I can find the time... Had got the big Nankang tyres (265-70-16) remolded in the same Apterra A/T pettern as the Getaway wears, only it's deeper - the much more compliant casings than the cross-ply or LT truck tyres it has worn till now make it ride amazingly plush - and it was the poor ride quality that had been my main complaint all these years!!!

I went ahead and put these on the Safari rims it's had all this time... wider wheels ended up back on the Getaway, and with the wide NGCS axle would probably have not allowed us to cross bridges like the one depicted in the first photo.

Anyway the increased height and width and grip these treads afford should make it capable of going places that a lot of more modern stock 4x4's would only dream of. I have something like 315mm ground-clearance at the GB crossmember, which apart from the differentials is the lowest-hanging thing on the underside - just crazy, really don't have to think about anything you'd normally encounter short of hardcore off-road.



There's a newly-cut link road just around the corner from us here that has slick mud on an incline, a proper water crossing, some very steep gradients and hairpin bends. It handles it all with aplomb - very confidence-inspiring. And much more effortlessly than the Getaway manages it, mainly thanks to the superior low-end grunt and much tighter turning radius.

Off-expressway, really can't ask for more (well, maybe power-steering - and A/C if we weren't in the hills).

-Eric

[vivekdewanta]

Originally Posted by ringoism

The car is running great, doing frequent local duty. Still love this car. It needs the wipers fixed (linkage broke recently), and a couple interior door handles, otherwise really is just a get-in-and-go-anywhere-anytime type vehicle. With the self-starter rebuild 1.5 years ago, it fires up so easily on cold Himalayan mornings. In general the ancient N/A DI with its heavy flywheel idles smoother than the CRDe. Just a great car.

-Eric

Presenting my enduring automotive companion, the venerable Mahindra Marshal of vintage 1998, a relic hailing from an era post the advent of the Mahindra Commander. This stalwart vehicle, a witness to the passage of time, continues to exude youthful vitality despite the years.

Throughout its storied existence, spanning remote terrains and less-traveled highways, the Mahindra Marshal has traversed over 800,000 kilometers with unwavering resolve. Resolute and steadfast, it has remained under singular ownership, a testament to its enduring reliability.

While recent years have presented their challenges, my steadfast commitment to its upkeep has ensured its continued operational excellence. A particularly daunting ordeal arose when the vehicle's antiquated wiring succumbed to an unforeseen electrical conundrum, resulting in complete system failure. Undeterred, I undertook the arduous task of rewiring the entire vehicle unaided, a labor-intensive endeavor that culminated in a restoration akin to its maiden days. Additionally, recognizing the importance of modern security measures, I implemented a state-of-the-art central locking system to safeguard this cherished automotive relic.

Further tribulations arose with the failure of the original brake booster, necessitating a creative solution. With the identical replacement elusive, I ingeniously adapted a booster from the Mahindra Bolero, breathing new life into the vehicle's braking mechanism. Procuring suitable replacements for the brake drums proved equally challenging, owing to their unique 139 PCD specification. In a display of resourcefulness, I successfully integrated drums intended for the Bolero model, customizing their fitment through meticulous fabrication, ensuring seamless functionality.

Beyond its mechanical prowess, the Mahindra Marshal serves as a repository of cherished memories and invaluable experiences. Having honed my driving skills within its steadfast confines in the year 2003, it stands as a symbol of untamed power and unwavering capability. Engage its gears, and witness its indomitable spirit effortlessly surmount any obstacle, a true testament to its enduring legacy.

[ringoism]

Originally Posted by vivekdewanta

Having honed my driving skills within its steadfast confines in the year 2003, it stands as a symbol of untamed power and unwavering capability. Engage its gears, and witness its indomitable spirit effortlessly surmount any obstacle, a true testament to its enduring legacy.

Nice old warrior that has clearly served well - Yet from one hill guy to another (I'm sure you'd understand): Indomitable spirit notwithstanding, sometimes "the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak"! With those supremely machined gears being hampered by the dubiousness of 2wd limitations, you'd be choosing your obstacles a little carefully... even if you've got a serious locker/lsd back there...

For about 15 years up till 2000 I was driving in the north-American snow-belt... and since 2005 been in the Himalayan one... Never had 4x4 in the former, and managed most roads till it got deep... Never been without it here, and do find it makes all the difference. The police do not allow 2wd's up beyond Manali when it snows significantly... and every time we go up we can see why - the few that sneak through always end up in trouble! But you've seen a bit in Shimla, for sure. All just a question of how far you want to take it. We used to get 4-5ft of snow in the village, when it gets like that even the guys with 35" tyres, 400hp and twin lockers aren't going anywhere.

12-18 inches we can manage ok:



But it's good to sit home sometimes.

-Eric

[vivekdewanta]

Originally Posted by ringoism

For about 15 years up till 2000 I was driving in the north-American snow-belt... and since 2005 been in the Himalayan one... Never had 4x4 in the former, and managed most roads till it got deep... Never been without it here, and do find it makes all the difference. The police do not allow 2wd's up beyond Manali when it snows significantly... and every time we go up we can see why - the few that sneak through always end up in trouble! But you've seen a bit in Shimla, for sure. All just a question of how far you want to take it. We used to get 4-5ft of snow in the village, when it gets like that even the guys with 35" tyres, 400hp and twin lockers aren't going anywhere.

12-18 inches we can manage ok:

But it's good to sit home sometimes.

Snowstorms in North America can be intense, especially in regions where heavy snowfall occurs. Many vehicles in North America switch to snow tires during winter. These specialized tires have better traction on icy and snowy roads.

In India, the availability of specialized snow tires is scarce, leaving 4WD vehicle owners reliant on MT (Mud Terrain) or AT (All Terrain) tires. Clearing snow piled up to 18-24 inches above the bumper becomes particularly challenging without dedicated snow tires.

It's puzzling why some people, particularly tourists in 2WD vehicles, persistently argue with police officers to advance towards snow-covered areas, only to end up sliding or getting stuck, thereby hindering other 4WD owners. Perhaps there's a need for more education on snow driving techniques, as well as awareness of the specialized vehicle requirements and appropriate tires for such environments.

Driving in fresh powder snow provides better traction than driving in the hard-packed, icy tire tracks laid down by other vehicles, and oftentimes the shoulder of the road has more salt, sand, or gravel available that also helps tire grip.

Back in 2022, I traversed the Khardungla pass effortlessly, despite encountering fresh snow accumulation of approximately 12 inches, and I did so without the aid of snow chains. It was astonishing to witness individuals pushing the limits with their 2WD trucks or sedans, attempting to ascend the hill. Unfortunately, many of them ended up stranded after just 4-5 kilometers of struggle, leaving their entire families on the road, desperately seeking assistance.

[ringoism]

Originally Posted by vivekdewanta

Many vehicles in North America switch to snow tires during winter. These specialized tires have better traction on icy and snowy roads.
In India, the availability of specialized snow tires is scarce, leaving 4WD vehicle owners reliant on MT (Mud Terrain) or AT (All Terrain) tires. Clearing snow piled up to 18-24 inches above the bumper becomes particularly challenging without dedicated snow tires.

18-24" above the bumper and you're definitely not going anywhere, even with 4x4!




(note that's a Gurkha "4x4x4" marooned in the second pic)

But otherwise your observations correspond to my own. Too many people are mad/stupid, and I can't tell you the frustration when we and others have got a perfectly capable 4x4 and yet are sitting immobilized due to helpless 2wd's stuck up ahead somewhere. Can actually turn deadly, almost every winter up here hundreds of tourists need to be rescued someplace towards Rohtang tunnel/pass.

One thing I like about having a 4x4 is that you can actually manage well in snow even with all-season/ AT tyres, which also grip well and are quiet in dry weather - more than can be generally said for full-on snow tyres.

Yes, we managed alright in 2wd in NE US with dedicated snow tyres (studded help a bit on ice), they do make a world of difference, BUT there were hills we just couldn't get up even with the special tyres, whereupon we'd have to carefully slip & slide back down. And we still had to put up with the greater noise & inferior dry grip. And yes, we shoveled literally tons of snow from our driveway just so we could get our cars out if we had anything more than about 6-8". Look at the whole region and that's probably hundreds of millions of man-hours shoveling after every storm. In a 4x4 with good GC we wouldn't ever have had to do this. Big waste of time, in retrospect.

As for Indian tyre options, I had JK Trak-Tuff on the Marshal, which were pretty much of an old-school 6.00x16 cross-ply snow-type design like what we got in the old days in the U.S. They were cheap, worked brilliantly, and had surprisingly good grip /low noise on dry roads. Not sure if still available. Later got some imported (full-tread pre-owned, cheap but not technically legal) Bridgestone Blizzaks, radials of a more modern snow-specific design with smaller void areas but lots of siping - these also worked pretty well up here.

On Getaway we went with the Apollo Apterra A/T's, which are one of the few true international-standard "M&S" rated tyres, they too are more of a modern design with good sipes, and seem to work very well in the snow we've done till now. Haven't tested the limits though.

Powder is a joy but rare here, and with the heavier, wetter snows more typical, once you're much deeper than the Marshal's transmission crossmember can clear, you're going to start struggling. Which is part of the reason I fabricated a new once that gained me 2-3" extra clearance. Stock one hangs pretty low, and even with 4x4 and proper snow tyres (those five Blizzaks showroom-new would have cost near a lakh!), it can stop you. I believe with that and 31" tyres we're at ~315mm GC there now.

-Eric

[vivekdewanta]

Originally Posted by ringoism

18-24" above the bumper and you're definitely not going anywhere, even with 4x4!
…
But otherwise your observations correspond to my own. Too many people are mad/stupid, and I can't tell you the frustration when we and others have got a perfectly capable 4x4 and yet are sitting immobilized due to helpless 2wd's stuck up ahead somewhere. Can actually turn deadly, almost every winter up here hundreds of tourists need to be rescued someplace towards Rohtang tunnel/pass.

Back in the day, when the snow piled up high, especially above the bumper or the low-hanging cross member like in older Marshal and MM550/540 vehicles, trouble often followed. Without the right tires or snow chains, you could find yourself stuck or bogged down deep in the snow, a predicament I've seen all too often.

But let me tell you about a recent expedition that shed light on the importance of preparation. A follower shared a captivating YouTube video of their journey to Ladakh, where they tackled snow as high as 3-4 feet with ease. How did they do it? Well, they equipped their vehicles with sturdy MT tires and some even added AT tires, plus the secret weapon: snow chains. One on the front and another diagonally on the rear wheel. It was like watching a well-choreographed dance on the snow.

Now, speaking from personal experience, I can attest to the difference the right tires can make. Back in 2018, I imported snow tires from Japan for my 2WD Alto, and boy, did they deliver! They handled the snow like a pro, even on treacherous terrain like Chanchal Pass. And it wasn't just snow they conquered; these tires tackled ice and black ice with ease, too.

But alas, not everyone sees the value in proper tires. Some folks, bless their hearts, insist on pushing their luck with bald tires on snow, as if sheer willpower alone can defy gravity. And don't get me started on those with 4WD but sporting shoddy tires; they're like modern-day Don Quixotes, tilting at snowdrifts and ending up stranded, much to the chagrin of anyone nearby.

It's a frustrating sight, to be sure, trying to educate these daredevils about the risks they're taking, not just for themselves but for everyone around them. But I digress.

Let's fast forward to my recent all-India road trip, where I decided to switch things up and give Apollo Apetrra AT tires a spin. And let me tell you, they didn't disappoint! Over 30,000 kilometers of varied terrain - snow, sand, highways, mud, rocks - you name it, these tires handled it like champs. Sure, they might not win any beauty contests with their thread looks, but when it comes to performance, they're top-notch.

So there you have it, a tale of tires, triumphs, and the occasional folly on the road. And as for whether I'll stick with these trusty Apetrras? Well, only time will tell.

[ringoism]

Originally Posted by vivekdewanta

. A follower shared a captivating YouTube video of their journey to Ladakh, where they tackled snow as high as 3-4 feet with ease. How did they do it? Well, they equipped their vehicles with sturdy MT tires and some even added AT tires, plus the secret weapon: snow chains. One on the front and another diagonally on the rear wheel. It was like watching a well-choreographed dance on the snow.
... I decided to switch things up and give Apollo Apetrra AT tires a spin. And let me tell you, they didn't disappoint! Over 30,000 kilometers of varied terrain - snow, sand, highways, mud, rocks - you name it, these tires handled it like champs. Sure, they might not win any beauty contests with their thread looks, but when it comes to performance, they're top-notch.

If they were truly pushing through 3-4ft snow at all (I am honestly doubtful) it would only be because the snow in Ladakh/ Spiti is very light and powdery (grippier and easier to displace) on account of the extreme cold. Chains even on all four wheels here where it's more dense/wet will definitely help - but not to the extent of pulling through those depths. And they are a real pain most of the time because while village link roads may remain snow-covered here, the main road/highway is usually not after the first day - and chains are terrible to drive on un-snowy roads. I will go out into whatever our 4x4 vehicles with A/T tyres will take us... when that becomes iffy, I'd rather stay home.

I also am skeptical of putting chains diagonally, if there are locking diffs and operator is on a budget, then of course it can give lots of extra grip with only one chain per axle... But with open diff(s) power is anyway going to the wheel with least resistance, i.e., unchained. So not much point, though obviously those doing it have faith that there is. I never saw this practice in other snow-belts.

I too have liked the Apterras, though like all tyres they have compromises. I feel the wet road braking grip could definitely be better. And I accordingly slow down under such conditions.

Like most domestic tyres they are biased for cost and long life, and as such certain limitations are inevitable. Good for the money, though, and IMHO the treads (not threads) look absolutely fine.

-Eric

[vivekdewanta]

Originally Posted by ringoism

If they were truly pushing through 3-4ft snow at all (I am honestly doubtful) it would only be because the snow in Ladakh/ Spiti is very light and powdery (grippier and easier to displace) on account of the extreme cold. Chains even on all four wheels here where it's more dense/wet will definitely help - but not to the extent of pulling through those depths. And they are a real pain most of the time because while village link roads may remain snow-covered here, the main road/highway is usually not after the first day - and chains are terrible to drive on un-snowy roads. I will go out into whatever our 4x4 vehicles with A/T tyres will take us... when that becomes iffy, I'd rather stay home.

Trust me Eric they were pushing through 3-4 feet of snow, the leading vehicle was the Hilux following Pajero Sports, Defender, and then Old-New Thars, Gurkhas, and Gimny. All were having snow chains diognoly, I understand with lockers it would be a great help not sure why the Thas and Gimny owners followed the same phenomena. Thar and Gimny owners struggled a little but not as much compared to the huge SUV. But Hilux is from a rare league when compared to offroading, with proper tires and other essential equipment.
Even Hilux tried to rescue a local gypsy that got stranded in deep snow, Hilux pulled the Gypsy so hard that it snapped the snow chain that too in powdery snow.

Originally Posted by ringoism

I also am skeptical of putting chains diagonally, if there are locking diffs and operator is on a budget, then of course it can give lots of extra grip with only one chain per axle... But with open diff(s) power is anyway going to the wheel with least resistance, i.e., unchained. So not much point, though obviously those doing it have faith that there is. I never saw this practice in other snow-belts.

As I said, vehicles with Lockers do make sense having snow chains tied up diagonally but not sure why Gypsy, Thar, and Gimny owners were following the Hilux, Gurkha, or Pajero owners' trend of diagonal snow chains. However I'm against the diagonal chains whatsoever we are forced to engage the lockers wherever it's not necessary. But at least I'm glad someone is carrying snow chains when running down to the snow belts regardless of good tires. Not like a few stupids who just enter the snow belts without even good tires and that too with 2WD.

Originally Posted by ringoism

Like most domestic tyres they are biased for cost and long life, and as such certain limitations are inevitable. Good for the money, though, and IMHO the treads (not threads) look absolutely fine.

-Eric

Hahah, Indeed, I was referring to the treads. The system autocorrected it and made the spelling mistake on my behalf.

Anyway, I was a little bit curious to know the differential gear ratio on your Marshal was it changed or stock on both axels?

[ringoism]

Originally Posted by vivekdewanta

I was a little bit curious to know the differential gear ratio on your Marshal was it changed or stock on both axels?

Stock 4.27:1, which is good all-round for hill driving, and in low range pulls way beyond anything we've needed it to off-road.

Presumably Jimny owners and others with open diffs (incl. on front of all these) are mounting chains diagonally because they saw someone or the other doing it and assumed these people must know something they don't (which was an incorrect assumption), or because they believed what someone told them with great confidence. There are so many things done out there on a broad scale that make no technical sense whatsoever and which have nonetheless been perpetuated through generations.

-Eric

[vivekdewanta]

Originally Posted by ringoism

Stock 4.27:1, which is good all-round for hill driving, and in low range pulls way beyond anything we've needed it to off-road.
-Eric

I remember you have mentioned somewhere on your BHP about the post about ratios but couldn't find the exact forum.

Haven't you tried to go lower on the ratios like 4.88 or 5.29, I know it would have brought down the performance on highways. But Marshal like vehicle was never build to run on highways.

I have noticed my Old Marshal approximately 8 lakh kilometres with record climbs the hill of 35 to 40 degrees in first gear, 2WD, even without pressing the accelerator. Nothing has been changed or overhauled on it just as OEM. Not sure what ratio is it on. It's a 1997 model right after the Mahindra Commander Jeep which was identical to Marshal.

On the same incline a 4WD Bolero with 4.88 without accelerator struggles or stall. Even gypsy fails on that incline, not sure which ratio does Gypsy got.

Marshal or any other Jeep at era were build really tough.
Once I remember accidentally I put almost a litre of gasoline (petrol) inside the gas tank. And surprisingly Marshal never stalled or created any problems, maybe she was happy though.