[ringoism]

Originally Posted by Sutripta

Gutfeel time again: The issue is not lag, but that there is an rpm band between idle and turbo coming on song, which corresponds to actual practically needed road speeds. In this rpm band, there will be no boost, no matter how long one waits.

I agree that this is the main issue... though I'm sure that even above that rpm, lag is there to some degree, exacerbating the overall problem. Lack of response would be a combination of both factors in most cases; I'm pretty sure I've read technical materials related to - and have definitely experienced - the increase in lag caused by additional intercooler volume, plumbing, etc.

By the way, have my Kolkata dates - will PM you.

Thanks,
Eric

[ramzsys]

Originally Posted by Sutripta

Gutfeel time again: The issue is not lag, but that there is an rpm band between idle and turbo coming on

removing the catalytic converter and providing for earlier additional fueling(remap) will reduce this rpm band.. no?

[Sutripta]

Originally Posted by ringoism

By the way, have my Kolkata dates - will PM you.

Great.

Originally Posted by ramzsys

removing the catalytic converter and providing for earlier additional fueling(remap) will reduce this rpm band.. no?

Not really. Almost fully related to the size/ design of the turbo.

Regards
Sutripta

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by Sutripta

Not really. Almost fully related to the size/ design of the turbo.

Agree, as a rule of thumb, removing the cat on a normally aspirated engine might give you 3-4% extra power and typically you will find it improves the low rev pick up. On turbo charged engines the improvement in the low rev band is minimal. I have removed the cat on my NA Alfa Romeo and its very noticeable.

Of coursem removing the cat might also mean you could be violating some environmental rules/laws. BTW on my Spider it happens to perfectly legal under Dutch law.

Jeroen

[DirtyDan]

Dusting off this old thread. My 2013 Thar has just turned the 1lahk point. I still have the wiper problems, it still goes thru ball joints and tie rods kind of fast..but not bad. I have put two clutch plates into it and, finally, a whole new clutch complete with throw out bearing and sundry plastic hydrolic parts (This was not too bad $$$$-wise) and that finally took care of my hinky clutch.

For the money it hasn't been bad for my use. Bad roading and trekking up into Ladahk and the deep mountains. It handles beautifully on the road and in tight traffic.

Recently I had a mechanic disconnect the EGR. I don't keep a spare dynamometer out back any more so I can't give technical stats. But I have got some steep freaking hills here that I traverse regularly. My seat-of-pants meter tells me I got maybe 6-9 more HP from that move. Going up the steep ones is much easier.

Now, of course I hooked the EGR right back up, right? I am a good citizen...of someplace.
And I am not recommending that Thar owners disconnect theirs...that would be illegal and neither I nor Team-BHP would condone any member doing illegal stuff....I have wondered if the the environmental impact of auto manufacturer's making EGR valves and systems isn't worse than the problem they are supposed to solve. And that maybe the whole EGR bit isn't just "feel good" mindless legislation. Just a question that I have no answer to.

[dhanushs]

Originally Posted by DirtyDan

...My seat-of-pants meter tells me I got maybe 6-9 more HP from that move. Going up the steep ones is much easier.

..

There is a sensor on top of the air filter, the Air Mass Sensor. Disconnect it and you will feel a tremendous difference if living in a hilly area with lesser than average air density.

AFAIK, the job of the sensor is to reduce the fueling when the air mass reduces, to avoid fueling to be rich and avoid smoke. With that removed, fuelling will run in the richest setting.

[The King]

Originally Posted by dhanushs

There is a sensor on top of the air filter, the Air Mass Sensor. Disconnect it and you will feel a tremendous difference if living in a hilly area with lesser than average air density.

AFAIK, the job of the sensor is to reduce the fueling when the air mass reduces, to avoid fueling to be rich and avoid smoke. With that removed, fuelling will run in the richest setting.

I am right now stranded somewhere near Tabo. Might give this mod a definitive try to see, if the things improve or not.

Starting from a stand still traffic on steep hills just outside of Shimla was quite problamatic for the Thar. Low end grunt is missing and I was put to shame by another Mahindra pickup which crossed me, loaded fully with cement bags, effortlessly.

[The King]

Originally Posted by dhanushs

There is a sensor on top of the air filter, the Air Mass Sensor. Disconnect it and you will feel a tremendous difference if living in a hilly area with lesser than average air density.

AFAIK, the job of the sensor is to reduce the fueling when the air mass reduces, to avoid fueling to be rich and avoid smoke. With that removed, fuelling will run in the richest setting.

Originally Posted by The King

I am right now stranded somewhere near Tabo. Might give this mod a definitive try to see, if the things improve or not.

Yes, confirmed..!

Huge boost at low rpm torque

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by The King

Huge boost at low rpm torque

Sure, but I would be very cautious running any engine with the air mass sensor disabled. It is likely to be running rich (or lean actually depending on the exacti conditons). No matter what it will not do your engine any good, especially in hilly country where you are likely to put relative high load on the engine.

running rich will lead to coking up of your engine. Worse, it might also to problems with piston/cylinder lubrication and thus increased wear.

[The King]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Sure, but I would be very cautious running any engine with the air mass sensor disabled. It is likely to be running rich (or lean actually depending on the exacti conditons). No matter what it will not do your engine any good, especially in hilly country where you are likely to put relative high load on the engine.

running rich will lead to coking up of your engine. Worse, it might also to problems with piston/cylinder lubrication and thus increased wear.

Agreed, but when you see a K10 Alto full of five people crosses you like a breeze on steep hill traffic, you have no other option left to save your.....Thar

[ashishy]

How does it matter if Alto or Mahindra pickup is overtaking a Thar? They are locals and have every right, experience and talent to overtake tourist. You cannot match their know how. I would never hurt engine of my car and thus my pocket just to prove a notion that other cars cannot overtake "my thar"

[dhanushs]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

running rich will lead to coking up of your engine. Worse, it might also to problems with piston/cylinder lubrication and thus increased wear.

You are right. Running rich isnt helpful to the engine.

However, not all, but, most of the (re)maps run rich maps. Also, olden days, most of the non CRDe engines pumps were/are tweaked up to haul loads.

In the Thar CRDe I personally know an engine running with disconnected Air Mass doing well even after 1.2lacs kms.

Not saying its recommended, but, for a quick fix of power, you can do that.

[DirtyDan]

Originally Posted by dhanushs

You are right. Running rich isnt helpful to the engine.

However, not all, but, most of the (re)maps run rich maps. Also, olden days, most of the non CRDe engines pumps were/are tweaked up to haul loads.

In the Thar CRDe I personally know an engine running with disconnected Air Mass doing well even after 1.2lacs kms.

Not saying its recommended, but, for a quick fix of power, you can do that.

I am going to try this soon. I have yet to find a clearly reputable re-map shop anywhere near me. I'd like to try that. I will soldier on along that route.

A question for you, Dhanushs. Behram at one point said to just plonk in a 2.6L. He says it's a bolt in propostion since the OE Thar CRDe engine is derived from the 2.6

What do you think about this? Would the gain over the OE engine be considerable? I would also have to pick up the 2.6L ECU I suppose. I am willing to put some money into this to get a vehicle that will perform. Thar does many things well but the lack of low end grunt is a pain in the..nether regions.

Very possibly I won't find a pristine 2.6L motor and/or a good shop to do the swap in any case.

[The King]

Originally Posted by ashishy

How does it matter if Alto or Mahindra pickup is overtaking a Thar? They are locals and have every right, experience and talent to overtake tourist. You cannot match their know how. I would never hurt engine of my car and thus my pocket just to prove a notion that other cars cannot overtake "my thar"

It's not about overtaking or experience, it's about that the Thar is Stalling and requires too much clutch slippage to push it further. No one is competing in drag race, it's just the stand still start performance on steep hills is alot poor that even an Alto can manage very easily.

[DirtyDan]

Originally Posted by The King

It's not about overtaking or experience, it's about that the Thar is Stalling and requires too much clutch slippage to push it further. No one is competing in drag race, it's just the stand still start performance on steep hills is alot poor that even an Alto can manage very easily.

Exactly right. It is sometimes dangerous to even pull out from a feeder road onto a busy road because the Thar is so accursedly slow off the line. You either burn the clutch or you sit and wait like your dear ole aunt Pooballah.