[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by thoma

I am wondering why the Beat diesel, being the FE king among diesels, alone is an exception to this! Nobody has claimed, at least in out forum, anywhere near to the Beat's ARAI figures of 25.XX. At the same time, as per reports available on the forum, the Liva, Micra, Swift, Figo all have exceeded the ARAI figures, on sedate drives.

Beat Ds gearing is short. So at highway speeds, the car will be doing high rpms [2500 rpms for 100 kmph?] which result in lower mileage than ARAI FE. I guess Beat D will return seriously good FE if driven at 60 kmph for prolonged duration! I believe I came across some one's report that they are getting 20kmpl+ in City conditions.

[sups]

Test drove Liva for the 2nd time and this time on a road that I am very familiar with. This is the road where I drive my Getz petrol everyday and also get driven many times. The Liva test drive car was a 2011 model.

The car is eager to move from the point go, and with a very direct steering the drive is effortless. I can say that its easier to drive Liva in city than Getz. The front seats are well supported unlike the backs seats which badly needs lower back support. New vista back seats are much more comfy. I did not feel any betterment in Liva suspension compared to my Getz, infact Getz is little better. Bodyroll is better controlled in Liva compared to my Getz.

Toyota really need to work on the engine sound, even at idle. I testdrove a new Vista quadrajet just after checking Liva. Compared to Liva's "caaar..caarr" sound, Vista made just a humming sound. I was surprised to see the Tata refinement. Vista has a turbo lag, but not much. Liva felt more spirited while driving. Does Liva 2012 model have better sound insulation?

One of my requirements is back seat comfort. Vista absorbed pot holes better but has some fish-tail movement feel at the back even at city speeds. Liva did not have this feel; but it can't absorb potholes like Vista at the same time.

At speeds of 80+, Figo gave me most confidence while driving over bad roads compared to Liva and Vista.

Vista VX is just 6.1L onroad in Pune after 10K discount. So, what should I buy? A Liva GD or Vista VX. I am more confused than ever.

By the way, I had a testdrive of Etios diesel topend model as well. I felt driving an Etios more involving and easy than Liva even though Etios is a bigger car. If I had a budget of 8L, I would have bought Etios GD+SP.

[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by sups

Test drove Liva for the 2nd time and this time on a road that I am very familiar with. This is the road where I drive my Getz petrol everyday and also get driven many times. The Liva test drive car was a 2011 model.

The car is eager to move from the point go, and with a very direct steering the drive is effortless. I can say that its easier to drive Liva in city than Getz. The front seats are well supported unlike the backs seats which badly needs lower back support. New vista back seats are much more comfy. I did not feel any betterment in Liva suspension compared to my Getz, infact Getz is little better. Bodyroll is better controlled in Liva compared to my Getz.

Toyota really need to work on the engine sound, even at idle. I testdrove a new Vista quadrajet just after checking Liva. Compared to Liva's "caaar..caarr" sound, Vista made just a humming sound. I was surprised to see the Tata refinement. Vista has a turbo lag, but not much. Liva felt more spirited while driving. Does Liva 2012 model have better sound insulation?

One of my requirements is back seat comfort. Vista absorbed pot holes better but has some fish-tail movement feel at the back even at city speeds. Liva did not have this feel; but it can't absorb potholes like Vista at the same time.

At speeds of 80+, Figo gave me most confidence while driving over bad roads compared to Liva and Vista.

Vista VX is just 6.1L onroad in Pune after 10K discount. So, what should I buy? A Liva GD or Vista VX. I am more confused than ever.

By the way, I had a testdrive of Etios diesel topend model as well. I felt driving an Etios more involving and easy than Liva even though Etios is a bigger car. If I had a budget of 8L, I would have bought Etios GD+SP.

Whats the price of the Liva GD?
Is the Figo out of contention completely?

The Tata is a great car, with a focus on the rear seat. I am sure the rear seat of the Manza may be as comfortable as the Etios if not better in terms of support. In fact, I really admire the Vista as a hatch as well, given that it has a good engine, great features and space, and is really a step up for Tata. The best bit - i liked the interior feel (not necessarily finish) of the Vista a little more than the Liva.
However, the worry of a niggle or problem cropping up, as well as unsure of how good the Tata dealer is, was one reason why we got the Liva over the Vista. If you can live with that, I personally think it is a good car given that it is just about better VFM than the Liva, has better seats and comfort, as well as slightly better interiors. The trade-off being the Tata badge which comes associated with not the best quality dealer network and niggles.
What exactly do you mean by the fish-tailing?

The Liva also has better FE, and a more relaxed engine - which would be better than the Vista engine in the city due to its eagerness. Regarding the back seat support, one option you could do to over come this is by installing seat covers with increased support for the lower back.
However, one thing you should ask the dealer, is to show you the 2012 model in the stockyard. And for the ride, you could switch over to 185/65R14 Michelins/Yoko A or C Drives which would give better ride quality - as well as keep the tyre pressure at 28. It would improve it a little, as well as improve the handling grip available.

[sups]

Originally Posted by lamborghini

Whats the price of the Liva GD?
Is the Figo out of contention completely?

What exactly do you mean by the fish-tailing?

Liva GD is onroad 6.36L and an additional about 7K for basic toyota accessories like mud-flap, car cover etc. So, total would come to about 6.43L. The equivalent cost of Vista would be 6.1L. Since I want to keep the car for a 5 years, 30K difference should not be a lone deciding factor if Liva meets my requirements. Agree with your comments on Tata. I need some luck to get a trouble free car from Tata. Thats what is holding me back.

Figo is out of contention as Vista and Liva both offers much more space and better ride comfort at city speeds.

What I meant by fish-tail is there is some floating tendency in vista even at low speeds, may be due to the very soft suspension.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by sups

Liva GD is onroad 6.36L and an additional about 7K for basic toyota accessories like mud-flap, car cover etc. So, total would come to about 6.43L. The equivalent cost of Vista would be 6.1L. Since I want to keep the car for a 5 years, 30K difference should not be a lone deciding factor if Liva meets my requirements. Agree with your comments on Tata. I need some luck to get a trouble free car from Tata. Thats what is holding me back.

Figo is out of contention as Vista and Liva both offers much more space and better ride comfort at city speeds.

What I meant by fish-tail is there is some floating tendency in vista even at low speeds, may be due to the very soft suspension.

If I were you, I would have picked the liva and then boost the foaming and upholstery with the help of oem fit people like stanley or karlsson. ofcourse, it adds 30k more to the cost though.

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by sups

Figo is out of contention as Vista and Liva both offers much more space and better ride comfort at city speeds.

What I meant by fish-tail is there is some floating tendency in vista even at low speeds, may be due to the very soft suspension.

The better ride comfort [in city] is due to the soft suspension set up. This will make the car bounce on highways and will reflect in the handling of the car. Of Vista / Liva / Figo, Figo has the BEST ride & handling package as I have read. After this Liva scores. I expect Vista to the most comfortable of all in city alone drives, but worst handling on highway [of all 3]. So I suggest you take a call according to the kind of drives you plan to have.

And for the extra 30K odd, I get oodles of peace of mind with Liva! If interiors are NOT a problem for you, Liva will be a pick of the lot. Plus Toyota service charges are cheap that can surprise you.

A small correction if I may - fish tailing refers to the rear stepping out under hard braking on a straight line [the front of the vehicle stops straight, but rear moves to right or left due to poor braking compared to front]. The floating tendency is more to be called a body roll [though NOT exactly] rather than fish tailing.

[sups]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

The better ride comfort [in city] is due to the soft suspension set up. This will make the car bounce on highways and will reflect in the handling of the car. Of Vista / Liva / Figo, Figo has the BEST ride & handling package as I have read. After this Liva scores. I expect Vista to the most comfortable of all in city alone drives, but worst handling on highway [of all 3]. So I suggest you take a call according to the kind of drives you plan to have.

And for the extra 30K odd, I get oodles of peace of mind with Liva! If interiors are NOT a problem for you, Liva will be a pick of the lot. Plus Toyota service charges are cheap that can surprise you.

A small correction if I may - fish tailing refers to the rear stepping out under hard braking on a straight line [the front of the vehicle stops straight, but rear moves to right or left due to poor braking compared to front]. The floating tendency is more to be called a body roll [though NOT exactly] rather than fish tailing.

Very nicely explained, thanks. I am also tilted towards Liva as a overall package. Afterall there are so many problems in life, niggling problems of the car should not add to that.

Thanks again for correcting the "fish tailing" issue. It may be the body roll, I am not sure. The feeling was definitely not adding to the comfort level even at a speed of 40 km/hr. And yes, on hard braking Vista had a tendency to tilt towards the front. Liva's braking does not seem to have any issues.

If only, if only Toyota could have made Liva a little quieter and added a tacho at that price point.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by sups

If only, if only Toyota could have made Liva a little quieter and added a tacho at that price point.

Within one month, you'll get used to that sound. the vibrations are well controlled as well. It's even better than swift ddis in terms of vibration control.

I can assurer you that since I've been used to the quietness of petrol cars for more than 10 years before buying the etios cousins. :-)

In addition, liva does get more quite after around 4k kms. Add synthetic oil after 2nd service and it gets even better.

[RadiantKarma]

Originally Posted by amalji

Add synthetic oil after 2nd service and it gets even better.

Tell me more about it! Does synthetic oil also help reduce engine noise? To what extent do you find the noise reduction?

[tsk1979]

The new 2012 Liva has better sound insulation. I can personally vouch for it.
However, living with the car for a few days, I see a few "big" problems
1. The center console not just looks like the half sun kids make, but its as bright too. So night driving is like a torch staring at your face. Is there some setting which can dim it? I could not find any!
2. The power window switches are black and not illuminated. So at night I just keep fumbling,
3. The doors do not auto lock. How stupid is that!

[RadiantKarma]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

The new 2012 Liva has better sound insulation. I can personally vouch for it.

Good to hear that!

However, living with the car for a few days, I see a few "big" problems
1. The center console not just looks like the half sun kids make, but its as bright too. So night driving is like a torch staring at your face. Is there some setting which can dim it? I could not find any!

That's funny! My 2011 Etios console does look like a computer printout, but the white backlight gives it a pleasant and soothing appearance in the night.

2. The power window switches are black and not illuminated. So at night I just keep fumbling,

Agree on that one! Also mentioned in my ownership review.

3. The doors do not auto lock. How stupid is that!

Not stupid. One word - Stingy! Yet smarter - from safety point of view - than the auto locks that also auto open the moment you stop the car!

[andromeda]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

The new 2012 Liva has better sound insulation. I can personally vouch for it.
However, living with the car for a few days, I see a few "big" problems
1. The center console not just looks like the half sun kids make, but its as bright too. So night driving is like a torch staring at your face. Is there some setting which can dim it? I could not find any!
2. The power window switches are black and not illuminated. So at night I just keep fumbling,
3. The doors do not auto lock. How stupid is that!

The sound insulation part is good to know. Can you please share what 'additional stuff' has been added in 2012 model compared to the earlier one ? Is it under-hood insulation, any sound deadening material like Dynamat in the door panel, thick carpet, etc.. ?

Curious to know if Toyota will put into the earlier models (even if it's for a price). Have picked this door air seal rubber strip for all the 4 doors & boot from Amazon Amazon.com: Car Vehicle Door Rubber Hollow Air Sealed Seal Strip: Car Electronics . Will get it fitted and check the noise difference when I get back this time.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by RadiantKarma

Tell me more about it! Does synthetic oil also help reduce engine noise? To what extent do you find the noise reduction?

Synthetic oil offers lesser friction at all conditions. Noise is lesser especially when we rev it hard.

[sups]

Originally Posted by lamborghini

Is the Figo out of contention completely?

I made Figo out of contention till the time the sales person brought a brand new Figo to my office for a short test drive yesterday. My perception changed, as this is a very different figo compared to the abused test drive vehicle I have driven earlier. The car has much lesser diesel clatter, much better pick-up (when at the right gear) and on a broken road it rode like a mini-SUV. I was impressed. Figo gave me more confidence to drive (than a Liva) with a solid feel which I missed in the 1st test drive.

I then asked the sales man to drive and sat at the back. The ride is good, even at 40-60km/hr, but I am not impressed with the space at the back at all after owning a Getz and looking at Liva. The lack of rear power window is a pain in figo. If Figo had little more space at the back, I would have given the cheque rightway.

Does this mean that Figo ages too fast?

I liked the ride and feel of Etios better than Liva. So, if I can extend my budget by 1.5 lakhs, these are the mixed options:

1. Etios GD+SP --- 7.94L onroad (free mud flap and door mats)
2. Liva GD (only ABS, no airbag) ----- 6.38L onroad (free mud flap and door mats). Add another 30K for rear seat customization with Stanley and total goes to 6.68K.
3. Figo TDCI Titanium ----- 6.7L onroad (free mud flap and door mats)

Probably, I have a feeling that I will not go wrong with any of these. But humans are meant to be confused. And I am human only.

My big priority is back seat ride comfort. Last few days I am driven by a 2011 Swift Dzire petrol (no offence meant please) and I have started hating the bumpy back seat of Dzire. MY NEW PURCHASE SHOULD NOT HAVE THAT KIND OF BUMPY UNSETTLING RIDE. Unfortunately its not possible to have such a long test drive to be sure with Figo/Liva/Etios.

Help please. Need to book by tomorrow.

[chandras1]

My big priority is back seat ride comfort. Last few days I am driven by a 2011 Swift Dzire petrol (no offence meant please) and I have started hating the bumpy back seat of Dzire. MY NEW PURCHASE SHOULD NOT HAVE THAT KIND OF BUMPY UNSETTLING RIDE. Unfortunately its not possible to have such a long test drive to be sure with Figo/Liva/Etios.

Help please. Need to book by tomorrow.

Haven't followed the full thread, but do check out the Mahindra Verito if back seat comfort is of paramount importance