[amey027]

Originally Posted by snallagatla

There might not be a direct subsidy scheme for 4W EVs but most of the states charge little to nothing on Road Tax. Also, there are other benefits like less interest rates on vehicle loan, tax benefits and etc.

True but that's not exactly eating into the tax money. The Govt is still collecting tax, only lower. Honestly, the only one who's benefiting from the subsidy are OEMs since it has managed to create a market out of nothing. I don't believe the market will 100% collapse if subsidy is removed but I also feel it will be down to 50% or more because how many of us are willing to spend approx INR 2L on a scooter?

Another way forward is to cut down on the technology/digital features electric scooters are sold with. OEMs will need to control the cost and that's the only way of doing it without compromising on range, probably even reducing the performance because let's be honest, no one ever demanded 0-40 kmph in 2 sec on a scooter.

[MotoDrive]

I don't understand the logic of buying the charger separately with a scooter that too which costs a bomb. I feel the charger should be integrated in side the scooter body with charger cable pull-rollback mechanism, I just want to pull the cable and plug it in to the socket at home and plug the charger plug of public charger whenever I go out for charging. I can't lug around the loose charger in the storage area in the scooter always which takes up considerable amount of space. Home some body at OLA or Ather or any other gives a thought on this. Their design thinking process needs to be revolved around end user's actual problem solving rather than providing all the tech in the touch screen which anyway people don use much. People use it because it's there. All I want is a scooter as simple as an Access125. I don't even need a bluetooth connection.

[amey027]

Originally Posted by MotoDrive

I don't understand the logic of buying the charger separately with a scooter that too which costs a bomb. I feel the charger should be integrated in side the scooter body with charger cable pull-rollback mechanism, I just want to pull the cable and plug it in to the socket at home and plug the charger plug of public charger whenever I go out for charging. I can't lug around the loose charger in the storage area in the scooter always which takes up considerable amount of space. Home some body at OLA or Ather or any other gives a thought on this. Their design thinking process needs to be revolved around end user's actual problem solving rather than providing all the tech in the touch screen which anyway people don use much. People use it because it's there. All I want is a scooter as simple as an Access125. I don't even need a bluetooth connection.

This was done so that the charger could be sold separately as an accessory with exorbitant profit margin. The charger that Ather used to sell for 20k to the customer costs only 3k for them to source from China. That's exactly what DHI has clarified is illegal and all OEMs (Ather, Ola, TVS, Vida) have to refund money to the customers. If the charger is integrated into the scooter from the factory, it can't count as an accessory.

[amey027]

Originally Posted by MotoDrive

I don't understand the logic of buying the charger separately with a scooter that too which costs a bomb. I feel the charger should be integrated in side the scooter body with charger cable pull-rollback mechanism, I just want to pull the cable and plug it in to the socket at home and plug the charger plug of public charger whenever I go out for charging. I can't lug around the loose charger in the storage area in the scooter always which takes up considerable amount of space. Home some body at OLA or Ather or any other gives a thought on this. Their design thinking process needs to be revolved around end user's actual problem solving rather than providing all the tech in the touch screen which anyway people don use much. People use it because it's there. All I want is a scooter as simple as an Access125. I don't even need a bluetooth connection.

Biggest marketing gimmick pulled off by Ather, Ola and TVS is the under seat storage space. They show images with that space filled with bag, groceries, helmet etc. without ever showing that in reality, 50-60% of the space is occupied by the charger. I have an Ather and that boot is absolutely useless since the charger is always there, can't even keep my laptop bag inside.

As for loading the scooter with tech, you think anyone would have bought Ather/Ola without all those features? TVS and Bajaj have a brand name and don't need feature gimmicks to sell their scooters but the startups do.

[volkman10]

Prices increased as New FAME structure kicks in.

[GTO]

I don't agree with this subsidy reduction at all. It's a body blow to budget EVs before they even went mainstream.

Here's an email I received from Greaves Electric Mobility. The price hikes are astonishing!

[ranjitnair77]

Originally Posted by GTO

I don't agree with this subsidy reduction at all. It's a body blow to budget EVs before they even went mainstream.

While we can argue that Rajiv Bajaj might have vested interests, he makes very logical points in why he doesn't agree with the FAME subsidies.

To paraphrase some of his points.

• He finds the 1.5 L cap on two wheelers arbitrary which has led to creative interpretations (charger unbundling, software packs)
• He believes India can build an EV future without subsidies. India went from BS 0 to BS 6 in 30 years without subsidies and can do the same with EVs.
• Has strong views that subsidies disrupt strategy, mask reality and blunt innovation.
• In previous interviews he has talked about subsidies leading to corruption which is what has played out with some of the rebranded Chinese scooters and their FAME payouts being withheld.
• He has also historically talked about the policy subsidising those who can afford to buy EVs (relatively rich). Especially cars where EV cars are usually second or third vehicles in the households. And not those who can really benefit from them.

If you zoom out and look at the long term, he is mostly right. There is also that big unaddressed problem where there is no incentive for people buying Hybrids which get very close or can edge out EVs in certain scenarios when it comes to being a cleaner alternative. However Hybrids are taxed at par with ICEs.

[sri_tesla]

Originally Posted by GTO

I don't agree with this subsidy reduction at all. It's a body blow to budget EVs before they even went mainstream.

Here's an email I received from Greaves Electric Mobility. The price hikes are astonishing!

Greaves mobility (Ampere) had much bigger problems than the subsidy reduction. They were found violating all the localization guidelines and were directed to deposit all the incentives claimed (approx. Rs 124 crores along with interest) under the FAME II scheme to the MHI. So, the bigger problem for Greaves is not just subsidy reduction, its subsidy removal and the need to pay the previously claimed subsidies. Despite claiming subsidies for years, these companies have not still invested in local manufacturing of the parts.

Source:
https://auto.hindustantimes.com/auto...111311496.html

Originally Posted by ranjitnair77

While we can argue that Rajiv Bajaj might have vested interests, he makes very logical points in why he doesn't agree with the FAME subsidies. While we can argue that Rajiv Bajaj might have vested interests, he makes very logical points in why he doesn't agree with the FAME subsidies.

But Rajiv Bajaj was happy to claim the subsidies for the Chetak EV sales for the last 2-3 years. His major gripe was that the EVs have started taking market share from the ICE vehicles. With the overall 2-wheeler market peaking long back and dwindling in the last few years, he is worried about the subsidies helping the EV startups like Ola, Ather, etc... to gain a foothold in this capital-intensive business. Ola, Ather along with TVS started selling in huge numbers for the last 1 year and forced Bajaj and Hero to reduce the prices for their EVs.

How does subsidies blunt innovation? Ather, Ola, and TVS scooters have better performance, smart features, bigger batteries, and a better range than Chetak at a better price. How is Chetak more innovative than any of these?

[volkman10]

Sales of EV picks up in May, as buyers rush to buy before June price hike.

In the eight days since May 22 when the FAME-II subsidy was slashed, 57,917 electric two-wheelers were sold in India.

Link

[volkman10]

SMEV (Society of Manufacturers of Electric Vehicles) petitions Niti Aayog to review FAME Policy.

- withholding subsidies, demanding retrospective claw backs of subsidy given in 2019, delisting companies from the NAB portal and now its latest move to slash subsidies, is likely to impact sales and substantially delay the process of EV adoption and penetration in the country.

- the situation has created a state of disequilibrium in the market given that there is no more a level playing field in the automotive sector.

- The direct and indirect impact of blocking subsidies to OEMs who had paid these out diligently to customers is plain to see: The OEMs are struggling to stay afloat; investors are wary; banks are withdrawing; employees are fleeing; debts are rising, and closures are the next imminent step

- It is evident that the E-Mobility ambitions of the country have been impacted as the scheme could not make up even 50% of its mandated target over 5 years, since 2019.

-The deterioration of FAME II and the deviation from the Niti Aayog's vision raise questions about the intended mass movement that was envisioned for E-Mobility

-It is disheartening to witness how these policy initiatives have transformed from a progressive and inclusive movement into an elitist pitch

-SMEV has proposed to the Government through the Finance Ministry that a 10% Green tax on polluting 2Wheelers could offer some balance to the field.

A specific deleterious impact of squeezing out mass market leaders has been that the low end commuter scooters are losing out to the premium segment. In a contrarian effect, not seen elsewhere, the FAME scheme has spawned a spurt in the premium EV bikes at the cost of commuter scooters

Link

[Dreammanualcars]

Originally Posted by amey027

As for whether the industry will survive without subsidy depends on how truly valuable customers consider electric 2Ws are. Just take a look at the 4W industry, it has no subsidies and yet electric cars have shown decent acceptance organically. There's no point if an industry is surviving purely based on government support, it just shows there is no organic viability.

Correct me if I am wrong, but as much as I have researched on this topic there is FAME II subsidy on 4-W vehicles also. It was capped up to ex- showroom price of 15L. This link shows the list of Tata vehicles under subsidy under no.45 - https://yocharge.com/news/list-of-el...sidy-in-india/
Please do have a look and share your opinion on the same.