[a4anurag]

With the itch actually beginning after I read the post made by Sankar in the Auto lightning thread as found here:

LED Replacement in Swift

The LED's replaced by him that kept me hooked to initiate the project were:

• Tail/brake lamp;
• Indicators and
• Reverse.

Now after pestering him quite often off the forum regarding the source of purchase and ways to go about it for changing the same in my Swift ZDi he had sent me the details of links via PM (Sincere Thanks!). Now I open the links and sit down ordering each item but later abandon the project due to personal and work related hindrances.

Due to work load etc, I forgot about the LED project completely and days passed by. Exactly 8 months later (IIRC) the LED replacements project resurfaced in my mind after I saw the new thread by Sankar on the same subject being redone on his Polo.

LED Retrofit in VW Polo

Now the search begins to get the bulbs and as per the links posted by him, when I went to Amazon.com and powerbulbs.com to purchase the bulb, the total value was around 12K that was too much for me at the moment.

Now with the options of these bulbs out of question, I started scouting for cheaper ones. Got a few links on AliExpress.com.

Have bought the following from AliExpress:

1. Indicators LED x 4 = ₹ 2200
2. Reverse LED x 2 = ₹ 700

And I received the brake lights from a friend who was selling his car so took it from him and put in my car. Some moolah saved! I received the products 27 days from buying it via China post Air mail.

So this thread will have the following put down in coming posts:

1. Procedure to open the Tail lamp to access the bulbs:
2. The bulbs used and its features versus OEM bulbs;
3. Pictures of the installation and results;
4. Issues being faced during the project.

[a4anurag]

1) Procedure to open the Tail lamp to access the bulbs

For the bulbs to be changed in the Swift, the whole tail lamp assembly needs to be opened to gain access to the individual bulbs.

IMO, it is a slight delicate affair and I urge BHPians to be very careful while doing the same. If there is any mistake, there would be damage to the tail lamp itself or scratches on the car body during the removal.

• Open the tail gate;
• Use a plus screwdriver or a Flank socket - 10mm to open the two bolts holding the tail lamp;
• Using a flat screwdriver insert it and use gentle pressure to get the tail lamp out of the clips (Picture inserted to show the points of clips*).
• Disconnect the harness;
• Tail lamp is now open and ready to be worked on.

Pictures to do the talking:

Tail lamp to be opened - LHS and RHS:


Tools used to open the tail lamp:


Points to insert the screw driver to free the tail lamp from the clips:


Clip 1 at the top end:


Clip 2 at the base:


Tail lamp opened:


A closer view of the tail lamp:

For even better understanding and upon request by BHPian fine69 I have made a video for the removal of the tail lamp. Here it is:

Video to demonstrate the procedure for opening the Tail lamp

Originally Posted by fine69

I'm hooked if you plan to put LEDs into tail lights, indicators and parking lights, that'd be sweet!!

One request though, if its not too much, could you make a video when you take out the bigger panels. Video helps a lot in determining how to take panels out, how much pressure to apply and where exactly.

PS: Apologies for the a very unprofessional way of video recording as this is the first time I have done it.

[a4anurag]

2) The bulbs used and its features versus OEM bulbs

The main heart of the project are the LED's themselves. I have searched and spoken to quite a few sellers before buying the LED's. Though not many replied and some were clueless of it working on the Swift. I did take the risk and order them.

OEM Bulbs that are on the car are manufactured by Osram and Made in Germany.

Tail / Brake Lamp: P21/5W
Indicators: PY21W
Reverse lamp: P21W

Keeping the above types in mind, I started searching for the LED's as a replacement so when I receive them I don't need to be red faced for a wrong holder/type of LED bulb.

Here is a small comparison sheet between the OEM vs LED bulbs.

Here are the OEM bulbs that are being replaced with LED's of the same type:

Tail/Brake Lamp socket:


Tail/Brake bulb:


Indicator Socket:


Indicator Bulb:


Reverse Lamp socket:


Reverse Lamp bulb:

Note: If one looks closely in the picture showing the sockets for the three bulbs, there is data on the type of bulb in that particular socket, its voltage. Neat!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The LED's that I chose for replacement:

Tail / Brake Lamp (A Pair):


Indicators (Set of 4):


Reverse Lamp (A pair):


Cree Lens on Reverse lamp:

Coming to reasons why I chose the above LED's as a replacement for the OEM bulbs:

1) Tail/Brake Lamp:

LED chip Type 1: 5630 SMD (5.6mm × 3.0mm) - on the sides
LED chip Type 2: Super Bright 5W CREE XPE LED (The brightness of 1 chips equals that of 5W bulb)

This gives me a brighter view and sharper one thanks to the CREE LED that makes things even brighter.

2) Indicators:

This one comes with 48 pieces - 3014-type SMD LED emitter with a special designed reflector mirror in front of the LED. This mirror will project the light directly to the stock lamp's reflector, then comes out much brighter rather than directly blinding the other road users.

3) Reverse Lamp:

It is a CREE equipped LED so will be bright and illuminate the rear better than the OEM bulb. Helps a lot in darker areas.

PS: I know many can flame me as the reverse lamp is too bright and blinding the road users at the rear but I feel this will be hardly used as compared to the brakes and indicators so went ahead with these.

PS: I am putting the above data taken from Description on the product page @ AliExpress.com

[a4anurag]

3) Pictures of the installation and results

In this post, ther pictures will speak the dofference between the OEM bulb versus the LED.

IMO, there is a marked difference in brightness post the changeover.

1) Tail / Brake Lights:

Brake lamp - Test shot:


Brake light - OEM v/s LED:

--------------------------------

2) Indicators:

OEM bulb v/s LED:


LED in place:


Brightness - OEM v/s LED:


Another shot - OEM v/s LED: where L=LED and R=OEM bulb


Reflection of the light from the LED's on the wall:

To give you guys an idea of the difference in the brightness, I have made two videos of the same.
1. OEM Indicator

OEM Indicators in Maruti Swift

2. For LED indicator

LED Indicator in Maruti Swift

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3) Reverse Lights:

OEM bulb vs LED:


Difference - OEM vs LED:


Both the LED's added:

[a4anurag]

4) Issues being faced during the project

I am now facing a couple of hindrances in completing this project successfully. Here are my issues and need suggestions for the same:

1) Tail / Brake Lamp:

The one that I have ordered was meant for both tail lamp (5W) and Brake lamp (21W) but when I installed the same in my car the LED's didn't glow when the headlights were switched ON. The LED's only responded to the brake input. Now I feel it is risky since at nights the rear end of the car will be dark due to no tail light as a result can be dangerous to drive around since no one would spot me till their headlights fall on my car.

Was highly pissed off with this so contacted the seller and explained the whole issue to which he was apologetic and refunded the full amount (incl return shipping charges) to me. Good gesture though. I am now scouting for an Replacement. Any suggestions?!

If I don't get any, I'll buy the bulbs from the below link:

Brake Light - Philips Xtreme Vision

Now comes the funniest + Saddest part:

After returning the product to the seller, a week or so later, my close friend who was selling his car and moving off to the US, removed these LED's and put the OEM bulbs before selling. I took them from him and tried again thinking the ones I had received would have been faulty. But these too didn't work as the ones I had purchased.

Dejected but with a small hope inside, I put these on my Karizma R to check if they work or no. Alas, it works perfectly during both conditions,

1) When the brakes are pressed and
2) When the headlights are switched ON.

Look at the images below:

LED's with the headlight ON:


LED's with the brakes pressed:


Now if I think, how is it working in the bike whereas it isn't working in my car?! The LED's per say are fine and genuine, but something wrong with the car I feel. Any pointers?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2) Indicators:

The issue with these are when I use the indicators (be it left or right) the blinking rate is much faster than standard BUT when hazard button is pressed the blinking rate is normal. What could be the reason?

The Good part of LED's:

• LED's as such are made to consume less power in the circuit and reduce the overall load on the electrical system.

The BAD part of LED's:

• Due to the low power consumption of these LED's, the system thinks one of the bulbs are shot hence give out errors like Hyper Flashing.

Now I am experiencing Hyper Flashing with these and the only solution is to add a resistor to the circuit. This would require me to splice the OEM wiring.

The car being under warranty, I am highly against splicing and stuff. So I contacted Sankar addressing him with the issue. He pointed me out to using of Quick splice wire tap connector that wouldn't let MASS or anyone know if the wires were spliced.

Here is the video for Hyper Flashing on my car:

Hyper flashing in Maruti Swift with LED indicators

Now I am in the dilemma as to what needs to be done to get things sorted out. Do I have alternatives to be used instead of Splicing wires, adding a load resistor for the LED's to function correctly?

I have contacted the seller raising an alarm as the product description did mention 'Error Free LED's" making me buy them but it didn't work on my car. Yet to get a reply from the seller to know what's his take on this.

Any pointers for the two above issues being faced would be appreciated. Thank you guys.

Last but not the least, I want to sincerely Thank DBHPian - Sankar to reignite the fuel to restart the project and to patiently answer my queries helping me out whenever I PM'ed him.

Disclaimer:
I have no association with the website AliExpress or their sellers.

Thanks for reading.

[Rehaan]

Thread moved out from the Assembly Line section. Thanks for sharing!

[Sankar]

Originally Posted by a4anurag

If I don't get any, I'll buy the bulbs from the below link:

Brake Light - Philips Xtreme Vision

That ^^ is the wrong item, it is the replacement for single filament bulb. You need this
http://www.amazon.com/Philips-12899R...dp/B00HWS7XGW/

Originally Posted by a4anurag

Dejected but with a small hope inside, I put these on my Karizma R to check if they work or no. Alas, it works perfectly during both conditions,

1) When the brakes are pressed and
2) When the headlights are switched ON.

Look at the images below:

LED's with the headlight ON:
Attachment 1380019

LED's with the brakes pressed:
Attachment 1380020

Now if I think, how is it working in the bike whereas it isn't working in my car?! The LED's per say are fine and genuine, but something wrong with the car I feel. Any pointers?

To me it looks like a polarity issue.

Originally Posted by a4anurag

Now I am experiencing Hyper Flashing with these and the only solution is to add a resistor to the circuit. This would require me to splice the OEM wiring.

Unfortunately yes in the case of Swift. If there was a separate flasher relay then you could have just swapped the relay to an LED compatible one. In Swift its the BCM that controls the flashing (probably there's a relay inside BCM module which may not be intended as a serviceable/replaceable part) and there is no user accessible flasher relay in it.

[dhanushs]

Originally Posted by a4anurag

Now if I think, how is it working in the bike whereas it isn't working in my car?! The LED's per say are fine and genuine, but something wrong with the car I feel. Any pointers?

These are double filament bulbs OE. So, when switching to LED's you have to match the polarity of both filaments, connections.

The issue with these are when I use the indicators (be it left or right) the blinking rate is much faster than standard BUT when hazard button is pressed the blinking rate is normal. What could be the reason?

Yup, the wattage of the LED's is less. Hence the faster flashing.

Apart from the LED turn on/off effect. What are the advantages of an LED indicator? I guess, for indicators, you can switch to normal bulbs.

[Vik0728]

Originally Posted by a4anurag

4) Issues being faced during the project


The BAD part of LED's:

• Due to the low power consumption of these LED's, the system thinks one of the bulbs are shot hence give out errors like Hyper Flashing.

Hey Anurag, I like the way you have described the entire D.I.Y bro.

Honestly, I was expecting this issue but was really surprised to see the video in which you have switched on the hazard lights with the LED's installed. I then thought, may be you had found the 'Solution' for the LED swap.

Well, this is one of the primary reasons why I have not yet swapped the bulbs to LED on my GT. In any case here is what I can suggest:

- Instead of the LED bulbs, you get these 'Blue' colored bulbs with white throw. These look way better than the OEM and also don't get hyper . I had these on my previous cars and have swapped the same on my GT, except for the indicators.
- As Sankar has posted, you can probably try some sort of relay for the LED indicator, which I personally think will be a little tricky to source/fit.

- Last and probably the worse option is to keep your OEM bulbs for the indicators and swap the rest with the LEDs. I know this actually defeats your money spent, but at least you can be rest assured the things are in place until you find a permanent fix.

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by dhanushs

I guess, for indicators, you can switch to normal bulbs.

+

Originally Posted by Vik0728

- Last and probably the worse option is to keep your OEM bulbs for the indicators and swap the rest with the LEDs.

This is the last option I have kept if nothing works out.

Originally Posted by Vik0728

Hey Anurag, I like the way you have described the entire D.I.Y bro.

Thank you and I am happy you liked it.

[batterylow]

Originally Posted by a4anurag

[b]4) Issue......ding.

Great work

I think the hyper flashing, though unintentional, looks unique!

As long as its fulfilling its primary objective of indicating the turn, it should be fine to run it this way right?

[a4anurag]

AN UPDATE with ANOTHER PROBLEM

4) Issues being faced during the project

1) Tail / Brake Lamp:

Was highly pissed off with this so contacted the seller and explained the whole issue to which he was apologetic and refunded the full amount (incl return shipping charges) to me. Good gesture though. I am now scouting for an Replacement. Any suggestions?!

Dejected but with a small hope inside, I put these on my Karizma R to check if they work or no. Alas, it works perfectly during both conditions,

Now if I think, how is it working in the bike whereas it isn't working in my car?! The LED's per say are fine and genuine, but something wrong with the car I feel. Any pointers?

Quoting my above post for easy reference:

Originally Posted by Sankar

To me it looks like a polarity issue.

Originally Posted by dhanushs

These are double filament bulbs OE. So, when switching to LED's you have to match the polarity of both filaments, connections.

After the seller received the bulbs I sent him back, he sent me another pair after testing it for free of cost as a goodwill measure.

I tried connecting it in the car but it didn't work if put normally but if I flip it and insert the LED, the tail lamp functions BUT the brake lights don't come on.

How do I go about this? Looks like polarity issue!

A view with the tail lamps ON:


OEM vs LED - Tail Lamp:

IMO, there is a marked difference in brightness with the tail lamps ON.

Originally Posted by batterylow

Great work

Thank you sir.

Originally Posted by batterylow

I think the hyper flashing, though unintentional, looks unique!

As long as its fulfilling its primary objective of indicating the turn, it should be fine to run it this way right?

Looks unique but it will surely reduce the working life of the LED and may have some side effect on the electrical system.

Main problem I think with the hyper flashing is the visibility for other road users as it will harm the eyes due to the speed of flash and brightness. Not the right option. One will NOT be able to drive if indicators start hyper flashing. Just like strobe LED's!

[Sankar]

Originally Posted by a4anurag

Main problem I think with the hyper flashing is the visibility for other road users as it will harm the eyes due to the speed of flash and brightness. Not the right option. One will NOT be able to drive if indicators start hyper flashing. Just like strobe LED's!

If you are keen on going the resistor route, then PM me your address i will send you the Philips resistors

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by Sankar

If you are keen on going the resistor route, then PM me your address i will send you the Philips resistors

Thank you for the offer. Will keep it open for the time being but trying to see if I find a bulb that works else will keep it stock.

BTW, I have put up a problem in the post above. Do help me out. Thanks.

[khushpreet.97]

I am not being rude but those reverse bulbs are a little to bright and may cause problem to other guys ! Can this be done on a 2008 model swift ??