[julupani]

Originally Posted by Ashley2

Its very simple. Look at any front engine Ac bus to understand how jump seats are provided. There is no relationship for reduced air condition load and having FOH door as anyway a partition is provided. Ultra 52 was displayed with partition door only even for Non Ac.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/commer...tra-buses.html

I had actually checked out the Starbus Ultra Luxury, which has air-conditioning. I didnt see any partition, or a jump seat, which is why I made the above statement.

Could you attach a picture or provide a link where I can see the layout you are talking about??

[Ashley2]

Originally Posted by julupani

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/commer...tra-buses.html

I had actually checked out the Starbus Ultra Luxury, which has air-conditioning. I didnt see any partition, or a jump seat, which is why I made the above statement.

Could you attach a picture or provide a link where I can see the layout you are talking about??

I was talking about jump seats in regular buses and not Ultra.
This image of Ultra is with partition.

[directinjection]

Is it a good idea to have a virtually full size bus body on what is essentially an LCV chassis? What about longevity and sturdiness? What about overloading and horrible Indian roads? Can these new midi buses (if I can call them that) take abuse without cracking up? What I like though is that the front axle is of proper width unlike the practice so far that results in ungainly sideways overhang.

The asymmetrical placement of TATA and Marcopolo logos on the bus front looks odd. What is the need to put Marcopolo logo anyways? Will it help in sales? I don't think so. It may be smarter not to use that logo and save the cost of trademark royalty payment to Marcopolo.

The fit and finish on Tata Marcopolo buses is nothing great and is comparable to what some smaller bus body builders give. If Marcopolo is as big a name in buses as it is made out to be, why is the quality of buses made here on Tata chassis lacking? Why can't they come up with something like Toyota Coaster?

[julupani]

Originally Posted by directinjection

Is it a good idea to have a virtually full size bus body on what is essentially an LCV chassis? What about longevity and sturdiness? What about overloading and horrible Indian roads? Can these new midi buses (if I can call them that) take abuse without cracking up? What I like though is that the front axle is of proper width unlike the practice so far that results in ungainly sideways overhang.

The asymmetrical placement of TATA and Marcopolo logos on the bus front looks odd. What is the need to put Marcopolo logo anyways? Will it help in sales? I don't think so. It may be smarter not to use that logo and save the cost of trademark royalty payment to Marcopolo.

The fit and finish on Tata Marcopolo buses is nothing great and is comparable to what some smaller bus body builders give. If Marcopolo is as big a name in buses as it is made out to be, why is the quality of buses made here on Tata chassis lacking? Why can't they come up with something like Toyota Coaster?

What do you mean by a full size bus?? Its a 24+2 seater bus, why would you need anything more than an LCV chassis. Also, a 24 seater bus on a 9.6ton GVW chassis isnt exactly going to be overloaded. Not to mention the fact that the kind of users who will buy such a bus wont exactly be overloading it.

As for the logo placement, I think they will fix that in the final production model. But they have to retain both logos, since the bus has considerable design inputs from MarcoPolo, and will be made by TMML, on a chassis from TML. Remember MarcoPolo is a full 50% partner here.

[directinjection]

Originally Posted by julupani

What do you mean by a full size bus?? Its a 24+2 seater bus, why would you need anything more than an LCV chassis.

They are looking big in the pictures, almost like full grown buses.

Originally Posted by julupani

Also, a 24 seater bus on a 9.6ton GVW chassis isnt exactly going to be overloaded.

You should see the minibuses in Delhi suburbs!

Originally Posted by julupani

Not to mention the fact that the kind of users who will buy such a bus wont exactly be overloading it.

Perhaps

Originally Posted by julupani

As for the logo placement, I think they will fix that in the final production model.

Even on Delhi's low floors buses, the placement is like that. Doesn't look good at all. Moreover, the logos are made from cheap plastic.

Originally Posted by julupani

But they have to retain both logos, since the bus has considerable design inputs from MarcoPolo, and will be made by TMML, on a chassis from TML. Remember MarcoPolo is a full 50% partner here.

It all depends on what the parties have agreed on in their formal agreements. It would have been smarter for Tata to maintain better control by going in for higher equity in the JV and also not use M's logo. When Rahul Bajaj was looking for foreign technology in the 1980s, he insisted that we wouldn't give more than 49% equity to the foreign partner.

Also, did TM really require Marcopolo's technology? Is bus body construction rocket science? TM earlier had a collaboration with Fuji of Japan through ACGL. Did Tata learn nothing from Fuji?

[Ashley2]

Originally Posted by directinjection

They are looking big in the pictures, almost like full grown buses...

Maybe that's the reason they brought to last auto expo and have not displayed..

[Ashley2]

It does'nt meet any requirements of multi axle bus except for the fact that its physically a multi axle bus.

[tharian]

Originally Posted by Ashley2

It does'nt meet any requirements of multi axle bus except for the fact that its physically a multi axle bus.

What the
Is this a TATA truck chassis and a bus body built over it?
From copying the name VOLVO and MERC, operators have actually started copying the structure itself!

[silversteed]

Originally Posted by Ashley2

It does'nt meet any requirements of multi axle bus except for the fact that its physically a multi axle bus.

What The Truck!!!
Is it because it's based on a 2516c(?) chassis that they have loaded the 'bus-like contraption' to the hilt (literally and otherwise) with so much luggage? Does it have the same rear axles as the truck chassis, or retrofitted the trailing axle with something like the front axle? It appears that there's only one tyre on the rear-most axle

[DWind]

How could they register this as a bus? Why would the owner do this by foresaking mileage? He seems to have missed a trick by not going for under body storage and relying on load at the top. I do not see any benefit of using a multi axle except maybe slightly better ride for rear passengers?

[v1kram]

Originally Posted by silversteed

Does it have the same rear axles as the truck chassis, or retrofitted the trailing axle with something like the front axle? It appears that there's only one tyre on the rear-most axle

Looks like it has the same rear axle as a normal multi axle truck (may not be a drive/live axle), only the photo angle makes to look like single tyre on rear axle.

Originally Posted by DWind

I do not see any benefit of using a multi axle except maybe slightly better ride for rear passengers?

More seating capacity (even better if it's of 3x2 configuration).

[Ashley2]

Originally Posted by silversteed

What The Truck!!!
Is it because it's based on a 2516c(?) chassis that they have loaded the 'bus-like contraption' to the hilt (literally and otherwise) with so much luggage? Does it have the same rear axles as the truck chassis, or retrofitted the trailing axle with something like the front axle? It appears that there's only one tyre on the rear-most axle

This is basically a 6x2, 10 wheeler chassis and possibly could be 2515TC.
This should be the choice for the people who thinks multi axle buses have high comfort than single axle bus.

Originally Posted by DWind

How could they register this as a bus? Why would the owner do this by foresaking mileage? He seems to have missed a trick by not going for under body storage and relying on load at the top. I do not see any benefit of using a multi axle except maybe slightly better ride for rear passengers?

Even if they register, how about insurance? Leave away mileage just consider the fact of additional tyre expense. The logic of going to multi axle bus is to have larger chassis length to accomodate more passengers. In this case its ruled out as the chassis length will just be equal to 12M or even less than that.

Non reactive suspension without load is a hell travel experience. Once you travel / drive you will never dare to even sit in that.

[teamveevee]

Originally Posted by Ashley2

This is basically a 6x2, 10 wheeler chassis and possibly could be 2515TC.

Hope this will motivate Tata Motors ( and AL too) to bring their own version of Multi Axle bus Marcopolo Paradiso ( own just chasis) soon to market. Looks like there are potential customers out there who are looking for Multi Axle buses from Tata and AL. This is a good time as operators are looking for a lower cost option to Volvo. Multi Axle has become the defacto standard in CC, and there are only limited choice now. Things may be different once the market improves next year!

[dr. sen]

In MHO, this type of bus is the pre-requisite to run in the following areas: eastern Bihar, Jharkhand, West Bengal, Assam, Arunachal, Nagaland, Mizoram, Tripura. That is to say these areas, where there are hardly any metaled roads, including NH and SH. for example, in West Bengal and Assam, to travel from kolkata to Guwahati, a distance of 1200 km or so, which was once travel able within 17- 20 odd hours (4 wheeler) in 2002 - 2004, now takes about 30- 36 hours. a distance of 585 km. i.e. kolkata to siliguri takes about 18- 20 hours, with a broken suspension or cracked sump as a bonus. even 3 years ago 35- 40 buses used to ply between these two points.

The point i am trying to make is, a normal 12m or 11m or even 9m chassis is getting twisted, and cracked on these roads. so may be only a 10 wheeler (modified into 8 wheeler) is the only solution. (experts may laugh at their own peril). Hasnt any one seen a normal loaded (not over loaded, mind you) 10 wheeler whizzing pass multiple speed breakers, or a stretch of bad road, where a normal or over loaded 6 wheeler or say a scorpio or a safari, is twisting and turning to avoid the craters.

As Ashley Sir, rightly pointed out, a non reactive suspension, without load is a terrible thing, but the same is "BOON" in a bad roads. You travel very faster, save fuel, no cracked chassis.

Regarding spped, they dont need it. 40- 50 km / hr is great. normal buses do 10- 20km / hr. With respect to tyre cost, the buses with radials suffers the most, as their side walls get damaged. no replacement for cuts sustained by the crater's side. or stones etc. Hundreds of families have been destroyed, due to these roads. (meaning Bus operaters, who had put lakhs on road).

Volvo has stopped giving warranties, on any bus plying in these areas. An operator, royal cruiser stopped operations 1 month back. This is the 4th such operator. We tried to ask volvo, merc, scania, but to no avail. I had asked the chief field officer of ASL about converting these 10 wheel truck chassis into buses, for exactly the same reasons. Only because of the insurance and rto permission, i could not do it.

I had seen Germans, who are among the most widely traveled citizens of this earth, on all terrains. Spoken to couple of the tour operators in germany , including the famous red bus tours, they chose the 10 wheel, 6x2 for their travels over continentals, including india, africa, north and south america and australia. Again, all these buses were loaded, and had normal, leaf spring and non reactive suspension, only. The very basics. As they cannot afford to carry or change air suspensions in the bush !

I can understand my friends and fellow brethren, from South and North and Western India, getting amused, but once they see the state of the roads (NH & SH), they will understand why that poor fellow, decided to take, such a great risk.

[SAE40 in veins]

Looking at the overhang in the front and rear, i am forced to think that this contraption (supposedly a bus) is built on an LPO 'Car Carrier' chassis rather than an LPT truck. If it is built on a car carrier chassis, then it can well be longer than the std 12 metres if the body is done smartly.
Is this the only specimen of its kind or are there more of these jugaads running in those regions ???experts plsss...